Would a near occasion


#1

…of a near occasion of sin be (mortally) sinful?:hmmm:


#2

A near occasion of sin is, by definition, not sinful, let alone mortally, so neither would a near occasion once removed (or any number of times removed).

I think one could commit a sin, however, by placing himself in a near occasion of sin, if he did so deliberately and without a just reason.


#3

hhmmmm…:hmmm:

So if I’m reading you right - one could be committing sin “A” by putting ones self in near occasion of sin “B”…

Or

Are you suggesting that if one voluntarily places ones self in the near occasion of acting on a sin, one has already sinned by thinking about it. (i.e committing adultery in one’s mind)…

Peace
James


#4

I don’t think it’s a sin to be in a near occasion of sin unless you deliberately put yourself into a near occasion of sin knowing that you’ll be tempted.


#5

My mind may not be interpreting your question correctly but I do believe that if you intentionally place yourself in an already identified near occasion for sin then you are intentionally sinning. Whether or not it is a mortal sin would be determined by if it was a grave matter or not.


#6

Occasions of sin…

There are all sorts of remote occasions of sin in life…all sorts of possible good things that one can do --where there is a possibility that some temptation may come. We would have to lock avoid many good things in life to avoid all those --and maybe knock ourselves unconscious…

(not saying here one does not still seek to avoid such often…one judges prudently such things)

Certainly though one is to avoid the near occasion of mortal sin.

We are obliged to avoid near occasions of mortal sin (usually more the focus is on such in this sort of question).

What though is a* near occasion* of mortal sin?

It is not simply temptation (though let us seek to avoid temptations).

A near occasion of mortal sin is such where one would* generally* falls into mortal sin -one generally commits a mortal sin (or even always!)–or is what is likely to cause one to commit a particular mortal sin now. Due to the nature of thing itself or ones particular weakness.

So can it be sinful to put oneself into a near occasion of mortal sin? Or remain in one? Yes.

Though there can at times be good reasons to be in them…ones confessor can guide one (necessary occasions…which one still tries to make more remote…)

And example of a mortal sin could be -(with full knowledge and deliberate consent) I am morally certain that if I put myself into circumstance Y that I will commit mortal sin Z.

Temptation and near occasions are treated for what they are. Let us calmly but with due haste -avoid deliberate sins and what lead to them -especially mortal sins - and turn to the Lord.


#7

He’s suggesting the first scenario. Why? Because when we pray the Our Father, we ask God to “lead us not into temptation,” but then we deliberately put ourselves into temptation… it’s a little hypocritical, don’t you think? Let’s not tempt ourselves, okay.


#8

Occasions of sin…

There are all sorts of remote occasions of sin in life…all sorts of possible good things that one can do --where there is a possibility that some temptation may come. We would have to lock avoid many good things in life to avoid all those --and maybe knock ourselves unconscious…

(not saying here one does not still seek to avoid such often…one judges prudently such things)

Certainly though one is to avoid the near occasion of mortal sin.

We are obliged to avoid near occasions of mortal sin (usually more the focus is on such in this sort of question).

What though is a* near occasion* of mortal sin?

It is not simply temptation (though let us seek to avoid temptations).

A near occasion of mortal sin is such where one would* generally* falls into mortal sin -one generally commits a mortal sin (or even always!)–or is what is likely to cause one to commit a particular mortal sin now. Due to the nature of thing itself or ones particular weakness.

So can it be sinful to put oneself into a near occasion of mortal sin? Or remain in one? Yes.

Though there can at times be good reasons to be in them…ones confessor can guide one (necessary occasions…which one still tries to make more remote…)

A clear example of a mortal sin could be -(with full knowledge and deliberate consent) I am morally certain that if I put myself into circumstance Y that I will commit mortal sin Z. And I do so with that needed knowledge and consent.

Temptation and near occasions are treated for what they are. Let us calmly but with due haste -avoid deliberate sins and what lead to them -especially mortal sins - and turn to the Lord.


#9

With all due respect I believe you are very wrong here. “…by placing himself in a near occasion of sin…”


#10

No, he is correct. By deliberately placing oneself in a near occasion of sin, one sins.


#11

See my post above: forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=12066258&postcount=7


#12

What’s your authority (cite you authority) to make such a statement? Sin is commission of, the carrying out, of the actual act.


#13

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. - (Matthew 5:28)

So - if sin is the carrying out of the actual act…what actual act is carried out in the above statement?

I think that the key word in the earlier post (and the “carrying out of the actual act”) would be to deliberately place one’s self in the near occasion…

Peace
James


#14

A hard heart shall fear evil at the last: and he that loveth danger shall perish in it. Ecclesiasticus 3:27

Look not upon a woman that hath a mind for many: lest thou fall into her snares. Use not much the company of her that is a dancer, and hearken not to her, lest thou perish by the force of her charms. Gaze not upon a maiden, lest her beauty be a stumblingblock to thee. Look not round about thee in the of the city, nor wander up and down in the streets thereof. Turn away thy face from a woman dressed up, and gaze not about upon another’s beauty. For many have perished by the beauty of a woman, and hereby lust is enkindled as a fire. Many by admiring the beauty of another man’s wife, have become reprobate, for her conversation burneth as fire. Sit not at all with another man’s wife, nor repose upon the bed with her: And strive not with her over wine, lest thy heart decline towards her, and by thy blood thou fall into destruction. Ecclesiasticus 9:3-5, 7-9, 11-13

“And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell. And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell” Matthew 5:29-30

“Hence if the circumstances suggest it, it may be necessary to remind them of that well-known precept of the natural and divine law, which commands us to avoid not only sins but the next occasion of sin as well” Encyclical on Mixed Marriages by Pope Gregory XVI, 1832

“On this point it should be noted, as indeed the Fathers and Doctors of the Church teach, that we can more easily struggle against and repress the wiles of evil and the enticements of the passions if we do not struggle directly against them, but rather flee from them as best we may. For the preserving of chastity, according to the teaching of Jerome, flight is more effective than open warfare: “Therefore I flee, lest I be overcome.”[92] Flight must be understood in this sense, that not only do we diligently avoid occasion of sin, but especially that in struggles of this kind we lift our minds and hearts to God…” **ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII ON CONSECRATED VIRGINITY MARCH 25, 1954 **

“Again, to satisfy is to cut off all occasions of sin, and to close every avenue against its suggestions” Catechism of Council of Trent, Sacrament of Penance

“Finally, we pray that God would remove all occasions of sin and iniquity” Catechism of Council of Trent, The Lord’s Prayer

“Theologians distinguish between the proximate and the remote occasion. They are not altogether at one as to the precise value to be attributed to the terms. De Lugo defines proximate occasion (De poenit. disp. 14, n. 149) as one in which men of like calibre for the most part fall into mortal sin, or one in which experience points to the same result from the special weakness of a particular person. The remote occasion lacks these elements. All theologians are agreed that there is no obligation to avoid the remote occasions of sin both because this would, practically speaking, be impossible and because they do not involve serious danger of sin.” Catholic Encyclopedia (1917), Occasions of Sin

“It is certain that one who is in the presence of a proximate occasion at once voluntary and continuous is bound to remove it. A refusal on the part of a penitent to do so would make it imperative for the confessor to deny absolution.” Catholic Encyclopedia (1917), Occasions of Sin


#15

From A Handbook of Moral Theology by Anton Koch and Arthur Preuss (1919), under “Occasions of Sin”:

It is a mortal sin to expose oneself voluntarily and without necessity to the danger of committing a mortal sin or to remain inactive towards such danger in a case of necessity, even though the sin be not committed, for to remain voluntarily in the proximate occasion of sin is deliberately to choose evil.

He then goes on to cite Innocent XI.

So if I do not commit X, but needlessly place myself in serious danger of committing X, then I commit another sin, Y. If X is a mortal sin, then so is Y.


#16

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