Would human clones be soul-less?


#1

Okay, let’s say Arnold Schwarzeneggar and Britney Spears are having lunch together in a restaurant. The pay their bill, get up, and leave.

A waitress very carefully takes their used spoons, wraps they in wax paper, and takes then to a cloning lab.

The lab finds one perfect Britney cell and one perfect Arnold cell on the spoons, pops the nuclei out of each, and pops them into ova from which the nuclei have previously been debrided. They implant them into the waittress, who gives birth to a cloned twin of Arnold and a cloned twin of Britney.

They debride the healthy stem cells from each, and from each stem cell line they clone 6,000,000 Britney clones and 6,000,000 Arnold clones, each a perfect twin of Arnold or of Britney. The cloned fetuses are quick-frozen in liquid nitrogen, and put up for sale at $50,000.00 each.

They sell like hotcakes to silly couples who want to have a beautiful Britney baby or a mighty Arnold baby. The waitress and the lab become multi-billionaires.

Would (will?) God cooperate with such a scheme, by giving these bizarre, un-naturally-generated twins, derived from the mouth cells of little Britney or big Arnold, souls?


#2

I believe the Church has said that clones would have souls.

Scott


#3

if one can make a metal robot that can think just like humans. does it have a soul?


#4

[quote=abcdefg]if one can make a metal robot that can think just like humans. does it have a soul?
[/quote]

One cannot make a metal robot that can “think” just like humans. Only life can think, and only life can have a soul.


#5

*only human Life can have a soul, other life doesn’t have souls, like animals who don’t have souls.


#6

[quote=Tyler Smedley]*only human Life can have a soul, other life doesn’t have souls, like animals who don’t have souls.
[/quote]

Actually they do, but they are material souls. They cease to exist at death.


#7

I am really bothered by the concept that God would cooperate with a sick, sick scheme to make 6,000,000 little Britney twins out of a cell from the inside of her mouth.

There are some very interesting anti-Christ predictions in the writings of the saints of the Early Church to the effect that anti-Christ will be the child of a woman who will claim that the child does not have a father [because it is a human clone? --BibleReader] and that the child will be possessed by a demon from birth [because it will be soul-less? --BibleReader].


#8

If they are humans, clones have to have some soul. Material (like animals) or real like normal humans? I don’t know. However, if they were to be fully human they would have to have a real soul.

A human clone would be no more responsible for the cloning than an illegitimate child is for fornication or adultery. God doesn’t blame illegitimate children for those sins. Why would He blame for cloning?


#9

I think if we are honest we will just say that we don’t know. I will say that God has a system in place that creates every person as a unique individual. If we start replicating humanity for wholesale profit I think that would be a sin for sure. I think Arnold has a soul, all of his little copies would be souless property. (I could be wrong).

-D


#10

[quote=BibleReader]I am really bothered by the concept that God would cooperate with a sick, sick scheme to make 6,000,000 little Britney twins out of a cell from the inside of her mouth.
[/quote]

I understand your objection. But the same argument can be made against the dignity of children conceived in rape. An act of evil and hatred brings them into the world, but an act of love, the love of God, will bring them into the next. Remember that in the depths of the most evil act, God is present. God sees, and punishes accordingly. But at the same time, cloning would not be possible were God not to allow it. A profound theological reality is this: God brings great good out of great evil. The next question is, “well, if they can be saved, why not clone?” But that question is as absurd as the question, “well, if a child of rape can be saved, why not commit rape?” Just because God can bring good from evil does not give man a license to commit evil. Remember, “The LORD is slow to anger, yet great in power, and the LORD never leaves the guilty unpunished” (Nah 1:3a).


#11

[quote=Darrel] I think Arnold has a soul, all of his little copies would be souless property. (I could be wrong).

-D
[/quote]

That’s a troublesome thought. cloned humans do have feeling. can you imagine they’re tortured or killed by their “owners”?


#12

[quote=abcdefg]That’s a troublesome thought. cloned humans do have feeling. can you imagine they’re tortured or killed by their “owners”?
[/quote]

Cruelty is not acceptable regardless of the question asking if they do or dont have souls (not that they exist anyway). If humans are manufactured as a product they will be (used) as a product. They will be considered as a seperate class with regards to value and legitimacy. This is why we should leave human conception alone and leave the distribution of souls to he that creates them.

-D


#13

[quote=BibleReader]I am really bothered by the concept that God would cooperate with a sick, sick scheme to make 6,000,000 little Britney twins out of a cell from the inside of her mouth.
[/quote]

God co-operates with human will, if evil is done through that, God will be the Best Good from that evil.

If 6 mil Britney’s were made, God will use Grace to invite them to Faith, and through Faith to Eternal Glory.

As someone mentioned above, this would be very similar to a child concieved in Rape. God takes the evil of Rape, and brings about a chance for Great Good (a new soul with potential to Live Enternally with the Father)


#14

I would imagine that it’d be no different than identical twins who result from an embryo splitting in the womb. They have two different souls, even though they are identical genetically.

Rich


#15

Well I hope we don’t decide they don’t have souls, because then it would be justiable to just use them as androids, for any purpose, as sci fi has been predicting for eons. That really opens up a can of worms doesn’t it? Bad enough that normally conceived humans are used and discarded as trash now.


#16
  1. You’re confusing issues.

  2. I cannot imagine any human being not having a soul, whether they are cloned, abandoned on a doorstep as a child and don’t know their parentage, found in a dumpster, born illigetimate, born as slaves or anyway else.

  3. The medical community does not want to clone an entire human being just to remove a single body part.

  4. Stem cells are derived from cloning a single section of tissue, like the umbilical cord from all the afterbirth produced from a maternity ward.

  5. The medical community wants to use stem cells derived from single tissue to further clone massive amounts of medicine to cure massive amounts of sick people.

  6. The medical community does not want to kill fetuses in order to harvest body parts. That is nonsense.


#17

Human clones have human souls – in fact, Jesus chose a human clone to be an Apostle.

Naturally-occurring clones are called “twins.” The Apostle Thomas was a twin (that’s what “thomas” means, a twin.) He is sometimes called “Thomas Didimus,” which is “twin” in both Aramaic and Greek.

So yes, clones have souls.


#18

[quote=vern humphrey]Human clones have human souls – in fact, Jesus chose a human clone to be an Apostle.

Naturally-occurring clones are called “twins.” The Apostle Thomas was a twin (that’s what “thomas” means, a twin.) He is sometimes called “Thomas Didimus,” which is “twin” in both Aramaic and Greek.

So yes, clones have souls.
[/quote]

I agree that ‘naturally’ occurring twins have souls since that was Gods will and that’s how the natural birth occurred. My question is, let’s say that 100 years from now that we have the technology to clone adult humans with them being produced at the same age as the original human… so there are fifty versions of one person. Will they all have souls coming off the assembly line?

-D


#19

[quote=Darrel]I agree that ‘naturally’ occurring twins have souls since that was Gods will and that’s how the natural birth occurred. My question is, let’s say that 100 years from now that we have the technology to clone adult humans with them being produced at the same age as the original human… so there are fifty versions of one person. Will they all have souls coming off the assembly line?

-D
[/quote]

[size=3]**"Q: **[/size]The Roman Catholic Church says that a soul is present in a new human being once the moment of conception occurs, when nuclei from the sperm and ovum fuse. In the case of cloning, however, there is no conception because the new human grows from a single cell.

Does this new human have a soul? If so, how does this happen? If not, is this new creature really human?

**A: **Your question is currently hypothetical because there is no evidence that it is possible to clone a human being. Although human tissue has been cloned and animals have been cloned, it is uncertain that a person can be cloned, that God’s careful handiwork can be duplicated apart from using sperm and egg.

If a new creature appears to be human and is generally regarded as human, we can only assume that he or she is human because a human soul is already present. The Church opposes the cloning of humans because this is the creation of human life apart from the family unit, apart from a clear sense of who is responsible for caring for this person."

I might add that the Church also opposes human cloning because in cloning many embryos are created which die. This would be immoral only in the case of humans with immortal souls – the Church does not oppose the cloning of animals


#20

i think that a clone would not have a soul because it is a copy of that person and that person is the one with a soul. How can somebody make a copy of a person and put a soul into it
if this person is a copy then can there only bethe one soul because they are technically the same person

i can see twins having a soul but a copy of the same person i cannot see as having a soul.
how can two people have the exact same soul because one is just a copy of another.


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