Would it be wrong for someone to force a celibate Gay person to go to conversion therapy?


#1

First- I am not against conversion therapy unless it is done against someone’s will. I think if someone thinks they don’t want to have SSA then they can do it. Forcing someone to do it against their will to me is wrong even if the motivation is right

Anyway, here’s the situation. Lets say I’m a father and my son suffers with SSA. My son is chaste and realizes that he cannot have Same Sex relations and therefore is in the right. However I as the father believe that he should be straight, and I send him to conversion therapy. Would I be wrong if I were to do this even if my son were a celibate and chaste person with SSA?


#2

You do realize that the largest “conversion therapy” group in the US shut down when the founder and director finally admitted that the therapy is fraudulent. Before I could ever send my child to such therapy, I would have to undergo the same therapy, but to change my sexual orientation from straight to gay - that way I could be sure that it’s real. I’m fascinated by those who think that it’s possible to change ones orientation from gay to straight, but not vise versa. IMHO, any Parent that would subject their child to such blatant abuse at the hands of quacks such as Michelle Bachmann’s husband had no right to be called a Parent.:mad:

To answer the specific question, before the top of my head blew off, why would, even the most homophobic Parent put their own child through that therapy if they were chaste? It’s so sad that there are still people who think that even gay individuals who are chaste need to change. :eek:


#3

If we limit our focus on Christians, both Catholic and non-Catholic, there are some Protestants that believe that everyone has a duty to marry. Maybe these are the people that may force their child to undergo conversion therapy.


#4

As such therapies are currently proven ineffective and there is plenty of evidence that many of them are harmful, I think it would be wrong and negligent for a parent to force their child to under go them. It would be like wasting time forcing a deaf child to undergo an unproven therapy to make them hear, rather then using that time to teach them lip-reading and sign language. A parent of a gay child would be better served to get them involved in a program that supports those who want to live a Christian lifestyle.

On the other hand, if such a program was available that had a significant rate of success at redirecting a person’s sexual desires, and was proven safe, then there would be nothing wrong with insisting on such a program, just as there is nothing wrong with having a blind child undergo a procedure to correct his vision.


#5

:thumbsup: 100% agree with you. Could scarcely believe the O.P meant to be taken seriously! :eek:


#6

:thumbsup: Here’s how successful those conversion therapy groups are:

The former leader of an American group that claimed it could stop people being attracted to those of the same sex has married his male partner.

John Smid has been openly gay for several years and has been in a relationship with his partner Larry McQueen for about a year.

Mr Smid, the executive director of the ‘Love in Action’ group from 1990 until 2008, said he had tried to deny his own sexuality but had come to the conclusion that it would not change.

“I’ve believed in faith that something was going to happen, and it never did, and so at my age, right now in my life, I don’t have that many good years left in me, and I can’t live like this for the rest of my life, so I said no I’m not willing to keep pushing after something that’s not going to happen," he told local US news outlet The Lone Star Q earlier this year.

In a Facebook announcement of the couple’s marriage over the weekend, Mr Smid said: "I gradually got to know [McQueen] over time until we reached a place in our lives that we saw we wanted to get to know one another through a dating relationship.

“As we dated we shared our vision for life, our personal philosophies, and our faith values. We found a compatibility that was comfortable and exciting.”

Mr Smid met McQueen three years ago, but they were just “acquaintances with common friends,” he said. He concluded his marriage announcement with a heartfelt acknowledgement of previous “mistakes, shortcomings, and failures”.

"I realized this week that my relationship with Larry is a mirror I see in every day. For most of my life, the mirror I saw reflected my mistakes, shortcomings, and failures,” he said.

“The reflection I see today with Larry shows me the positive things in my life, my strengths, gifts, and talents. I see how I can succeed at a mutual intimate and loving relationship. For this, I am truly grateful."

Love in Action caused a media storm in 2005 when it promoted a programme that it said could change the sexuality of children.

There were sustained protests against the organisation, which was founded in California. In March 2012 it changed its name to Restoration Path.

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/former-leader-of-us-gay-cure-group-marries-his-same-sex-partner-9871953.html


#7

In answer to the question posed in the thread title.

Yes. Very wrong indeed.

Nobody may be forced into an attempt to change who they are, whether the outcome of the attempt is guaranteed or not. What is free will for otherwise? To force ‘conversion therapy’ upon anyone would be a grave and sinful act.


#8

Watch this: “The Third Way.”

Best line: “I used to think I was gay. Today, I realize that I am David.” - David.


#9

What exactly does that mean? David might also say, “I’m American”. That does not mean that he is not both David and American. Or if you substitute “Christian” for “gay,” wouldn’t that statement be silly: “I used to think I was Christian. Today, I realize that I am David.”


#10

Watch the whole video. Believe me, it will make way more sense, once you’ve seen the video. :slight_smile:


#11

A nice video, but it was not about “conversion therapy” as the term was used in the OP.


#12

I think it shows why conversion therapy would go against the teachings of the Church, even though the Church also teaches that homosexual behaviour is a sin.


#13

One of the bad things about that video (The Third Way) is that it makes it seem as if all gay people got that way because they grew up in dysfunctional families with terrible parents.

The gay men interviewed in the video say things like: “My dad was an alcoholic and he physically abused me”; OR: “I grew up in an environment feeling unwanted. My mom used to say things like I wish you were never born to me. I felt very depressed and very suicidal”; OR: “My dad would lose patience and go into a rage, screaming and hollering and calling me names…Everything associated with masculinity scared me, terrified me, I hated it”; OR: “I think the bullying caused me to go deeper into the sexual acting out”’

A Lesbian in the video says: “My mother and I were like ice toward each other so there was no real connection there”; OR: “I grew up hating men. I had been molested as a child”.

That is not to say that some gay men or lesbians were not abused as children, but almost no one was interviewed who had a normal childhood and still turned out to be gay or lesbian, even though there are many gay men and lesbians who did have relatively normal, uneventful childhoods. But of course, interviewing any of them would hurt the way that the makers of this film want to frame the issue. They certainly don’t want to suggest that gays and lesbians might have been born that way.

I knew that I was attracted to my own sex by the time I was 11 or 12, but I have wonderful parents who have always loved me and never mistreated me. They do not fit any of the stereotypes so often trotted out by ex-gay organizations. I had a great childhood and there was nothing dysfunctional about it. Neither of my parents were alcoholics, called me names or abused me in any way, physically or verbally. Things associated with masculinity don’t scare me.


#14

I agree. I watched it quite a while ago. It would be more credible to avoid giving the impression that homosexuality is a consequence of some events or circumstances of upbringing. The Church certainly does not assert that.


#15

First, conversion therapy has been around for centuries and was promoted by none other than the apostles.

Second, more than 10,000 studies show that homosexual desires for most people are temporary. mygenes.co.nz/summary.htm

Third, if someone has unwanted SSA this does not mean they were born this way, science and the Bible refute this. I had unwanted SSA too btw.

Fourth, the fact that ONE person claims that conversion therapy has hurt others is anecdotal evidence and should be judged according, I am referring to NARTH’s former director. Also, this individual himself was struggling with deep seated homosexual tendencies and decided to give in to feeling “true to himself” because of his SSA. This is the “banner logic” of the gay lobby and they have been very successful, but can never prevent a person from having severe guilt from taking a path away from God. This is why the gay lobby and it’s supporters need constant affirmation, as seen on thread like this.

Finally, to get to the question the first step is trusting what God has told us; SSA is not normal nor natural so while a person may not be sinning having SSA there is something wrong (many of those who suffer from SSA erroneously believe they can lust after others of the same sex and not sin, but this is a lie of course.) Therefore, with accepting that there is something wrong with SSA the next step is asking God for help. We know from Romans chapter 1 that the** rejecting God and being arrogant can expose someone to [size=]UNWANTED[/size]homosexual desires,** in fact this happened to me. Therefore, the logical and very successful solution is to reject self and pride and submit to Jesus Christ. This has been used over the centuries and when a person is sincere it does not fail.

Also, it is worthy to mention that those Christians who support the gay lobby generally reject the God of Abraham and St. Paul’s writing and will in principal automatically disqualify any legitimate research in the area of homosexuality done by an orthodox Christian and as such their comments should be judged accordingly.


#16

Which apostles promoted conversion therapy? I’d like to here more about this .:rolleyes:


#17

1 CORINTHIANS 6
" Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.** That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, **you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.


#18

This means they ceased having sex…

It says nothing about altering one’s immutable orientation. Also why did you bold boy prostitutes? :rolleyes:


#19

Homosexuality is not immutable, and nothing in the Bible nor the Christian and Judaic tradition nor the Catechism nor much less science can support your claim.


#20

Do you know this is always true? How do you know this? The Church admits to not knowing the cause of homosexuality, and expresses only the view that one may stop sinning. The Church does not suggest that the orientation can be changed - as with the cause, the question is outside its area of competence. The bulk of scientistific opinion leans to the view that the orientation can’t be changed. So I’m asking - what is the basis of your assertion, given it is not the Church, and it is not scientific opinion?


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