I am somewhat confused by CNN Opinion on same sex marriage.It seems that Jay Parini, a professor who teaches at Middlebury college in Vermont, is stating that the Catholic church is softening its stance on gay marriage? To the best of my knowledge the Catholic catechism states that in part “tradition has always declared that homosexuals acts are intrinsically disordered”. correct me if I am wrong:o the Catholic Catechism is the word of God…right? essentially the Catholic Magisterium states that homosexuality has never been and never will be acceptable under any circumstance.What really baffles me is how Pope Francis statement “who am I to judge” in regards to homosexuality is interpreted by educated commentators such as Mr. Parini. I believe he is under the impression that the Catholic church maybe will accept homosexuality? really:shrug: I don’t get it, has Mr. Parini even had a look at the Catholic catechism in regards to offenses against chastity? I want to make myself perfectly clear, to the best of my knowledge there are many offenses against chastity, they seem to be all equally sinful? I mean fornication, pornography,adultery etc.I am not singling out homosexuals.I do understand and agree with “who am I to judge” I am referencing 2357-2359 Catechism of the Catholic Church.I am not going to debate with non Catholics about theology or morals, I believe every word of the catechism, I am a faithful Catholic striving, always striving to be a better Christian:) here is the link to the CNN opinion,thank you.cnn.com/2014/10/03/opinion/parini-would-jesus-be-ok-with-gay-marriage/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
“would Jesus accept same-sex marriage?”
I didn’t realise there had been a proposal.
I think most of the piece is about Mr Parini telling us his thoughts about Christianity and homosexuality and making comments about the changes in some thinking among some Christians.
He doesn’t really discuss the Catholic Church very much and I agree with you that the Catholic position is that it is a disorder and that our homosexual brothers and sisters need love, respect and support in facing this disorder.
Yes, I agree with you however it seems he is implying that Pope Francis is more accepting of homosexuality as compared to
Pope benedict. how do you interpret Mr. Parinis statement “these were astonishing words, with this Pope adopting a tone very different from that of his predecessor who condemned homosexuality as an 'intrinsic moral evil”.I am perplexed as to how the commentator seems to think that Catholic dogma has changed in any way in regards to homosexuality, it has not whatsoever.It seems that Pope Francis is more affable compared to Pope Benedict? Do you or anyone else think Catholic dogma will change in regards to the gay lifestyle? Mr. Parini is not the first to misinterpret Pope Francis on this subject.
I think there are quite a few who would wish for the teaching to change and quite a few who are agitating for it. But I think it is mainly coming from people either not in the Church or on the fringes of the Church.
Sometimes we interpret things from our own understanding and wishes and sometimes we communicate this in a way to persuade others.
I think this is what is happening here with Mr Parini’s comments.
The media creates confusion because it wants people to dissent from the Church in anyway possible. This has been going on since Humanae Vitae in the 1960s. The same thing went on when the left pushed for legalization and the commencement of the abortion holocaust in the 1970s.
What you have with Pope Francis saying “…who am I to judge? …” (the proper punctuation) is half a sentence ripped out of context of anything that a third-grader could glean from, you know, reading the Catechism.
Now to answer your question OP, I’m not sure what planet a person would be living on if he thought that a first century rabbi would accept same-sex marriage. No, absolutely not.
Can you excuse my poor punctuation:shrug: is it rational to say that the Catechism is the word of God? I mean the Magisterium gives an authentic interpretation of the word of God? Please excuse my novice questions, I am rather new to Christianity and lately have been trying to decipher the Catechism, apparently I am in the second grade;) .It deeply concerns me that I am an increasing minority of faithful Catholics.I worry that sooner or later I will be persecuted for my beliefs.I mean it seems society is maybe going to try and force me to accept various types of sins.Thank you all for your replies.56 years old and now just trying to sort out my theology:o
Two issues here.
No, He would not accept it. To do so would mean turning His back on the teachings of His Father from the Torah.
However, he would insist that we, as average sinners, take care of the “beam” in our own eye before carping about the mote in the eyes of others.
God has not named us, in general, His enforcers.
This is the state of discourse in America today. He knows that the Church will not change it’s position to fit his ideal world. He like many in the media think that if they say it enough, condemn the churches teachings enough that she will give in to this sin. The intellectual, self proclaim genius in this country think they are to smart to believe in Gods Will, to superior to believe in all that ancient theology. Vanity, Vanity, all is Vanity.(Job)
Whenever Jesus forgave someone HE told them to “Go and sin NO MORE”. Pope Francis is telling us to not judge the person even tho we KNOW the sin is wrong. We cannot judge someones eternity. We must pray for them and help whenever possible. That has always been Church teaching. Love the sinner but hate the sin, including our own. God Bless, Memaw
I agree with others here that Jesus would not agree with same sex marriage. Also, the Catechism is NOT the Word of God.
Reported this am on Bloomberg Business News, US Supreme Court taking a pass on same-sex marriage ruling.
Wonder why the six Catholic appointed justices are taking a pass?
Peace to all and God Bless.
I would take statements coming from Middlebury College with a grain of salt.
As far as ranking sins, I’m not sure. Someone on here wrote that masturbation was more sinful than fornication.
Never saw that one coming, but can see how that certainly could be. :shrug:
Aquinas infamously conclulded that masturbation was more sinful than rape. Just because someone says it doesn’t mean it’s correct, even if they are an authority.
Simple and truthful answer: No, absolutely not. Jesus never accepted sin or sinful behavior.
They refuse to rule on gay marriage so it allows gay marriage in 5 states because they don’t overturn lower-court rulings.
The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday declined to take up the hotly contested issue of gay marriage, a surprise move that will allow gay men and women to marry in five states where same-sex weddings were previously banned.
By rejecting appeals in cases involving Virginia, Oklahoma, Utah, Wisconsin, and Indiana, the court left intact lower-court rulings that struck down bans in those states.
Perhaps legal wrangling will see legislation enacted in these states to again ban it.
I would infer that a US Constitutional amendment may be necessary to ban same sex-marriage. Somewhat unlikely in the current atmosphere, perhaps possible in the future.
Peace to all and God Bless.
Please join the tiny minority of people who actually paid attention to the context of that Francis quote! nytimes.com/2013/07/30/world/europe/pope-francis-gay-priests.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
He was speaking of PRIESTS who are homosexual, but living out their vocational promises faithfully. By definition, this means no sodomy!
The NYT article linked (as usual) totally misconstrues Catholicism and fails to comprehend the difference between sinful actions and the ongoing dignity of persons. The article linked appears to assert that catholic teaching that homosexuality is “intrinsically disordered” is a slur against the person. One can only reach such a conclusion if one fails to comprehend the catholic principle of Original Sin which explains that we ALL suffer from disordered inclinations towards sin. This is NOT something peculiar to gay people! Catholics should understand that all people are good, but fallen. We’re like tragic heroes whose flaws will be our undoing if we are not saved by the Grace of Christ.
Again, the NYT utterly fails to discern that the document they reference doesn’t bar gay people from the seminary because they are inherently unworthy, but because they lack one of the truly great discernment tools necessary for knowing that one has a vocation to the priesthood. If one is willing to give up the blessings of a wife and family for the sake of the gospel, that is a pretty telling indicator that he has received the Grace of a vocation to priesthood. A gay man who loves God, on the other hand, already has the terrible burden of never being able to have a family and may be tempted to see the priesthood as an easier way to live out that burden even if he is not specifically called to be a priest. THIS is why homosexuality is an impediment to priesthood. But in cases where a gay man is ordained a priest in spite of those warnings, Francis is saying “What’s done is done and if the priest turns out to truly have a vocation and is able to live out a faithful priesthood then who am I to judge?” Indeed. But refusal to condemn a faithful priest who has a SSA and is doing well is NOT the same thing as saying “Being gay is no longer an impediment to being ordained a priest.” It’s the same principle by which some married convert men to Catholicism can be ordained priests but I (cradle catholic and married) can’t. It’s sophisticated, but rational. Sadly the NYT and the rest of the media are uninterested in comprehending sophisticated moral theology.
In my opinion, perhaps Jesus would indeed accept same-sex marriage. I’m being serious here and not trying to cause any trouble. My reason being is threefold. First, every human being deserves to love and be loved, in fact this is the Golden Rule, to love they neighbor. I also believe this pertains to romantic, agape love. Second of all, God alone will judge and knows the heart of us all. For us to assume that we know what Jesus would do in EVERY case is not possible. Thirdly, and most importantly, I believe, and many others are beginning to believe, that 2 gay people can fall in actual love! This is the reason that trumps everything and that so many people can not begin to fathom. I myself was one who used to not thing this, but after seeing close friends and family, and meeting their SS husbands and wives, and seeing how HAPPY they are, I’ve changed my mind. I’ve seen actual JOY in their faces, their souls. How could Jesus not be happy about this? This is my opinion, thank you for listening.