Would the Chalice of the Precious Blood in Mass be a relic?


#1

If a first class relic is an actual piece of a saint, and if relics of the Passion are also relics... Then wouldn't liturgical items used for the Eucharist during Mass be considered relics as well? So then if we cut a piece of the chalice purificator with a stain of the Precious Blood on it, wouldn't that be considered a relic equivalent to something like the Shroud of Turin?
I'm not trying to be funny, since I know it would be... strange to do such a thing, but would it technically be considered a relic?

If I wiped a cloth to my church's tabernacle door, would that make the cloth a third class relic of Jesus?

Thanks for answering my silly questions :p
God bless!


#2

… I don’t think I have ever thought of this. Excellent question!


#3

I would also like to know as I have one. It was given to me by my church because it was broken and just sitting on a shelf for years.


#4

[quote="Oumashta, post:1, topic:318024"]
So then if we cut a piece of the chalice purificator with a stain of the Precious Blood on it, wouldn't that be considered a relic equivalent to something like the Shroud of Turin?

[/quote]

No. The Eucharist is greater than relics. The authenticity of the Shroud of Turin is still disputed. If you have a piece of cloth with the Blood of Christ on it you should not be carrying it around nor should you keep it. You should return it to a church to be properly purified then purify your hands with Holy Water. If for whatever reason you cannot return it to a church you should purify/wash it by hand and allow the runoff to go back into the earth, preferably in a respectful area, then bury the cloth.

newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2011/06/could-there-be-any-1st-class-relics-of.html


#5

[quote="mikeeh, post:4, topic:318024"]
If you have a piece of cloth with the Blood of Christ on it you should not be carrying it around nor should you keep it. You should return it to a church to be properly purified

[/quote]

Good advice. However, I'm not sure it rises to the level of Eucharistic abuse: for the Eucharistic species to persist, they must retain the appearance of their accidents. Although a stain on a purificator has the appearance of a wine stain, I'm not certain I'd say that it retains the appearance of wine. Nevertheless, the purificator should be properly cleaned.

then purify your hands with Holy Water.

This is a novel suggestion; I've never seen it suggested that those who purify vessels (or those who come in contact with a used purificator) need to 'purify' their hands (either with or without holy water!)

wouldn't liturgical items used for the Eucharist during Mass be considered relics as well?

No. Although people scream when I say it around here, the Eucharist is Christ's sacramental presence, not physical presence (Real and True Presence, but sacramental, not physical) -- the physical accidents are those of wine and bread. Therefore, liturgical vessels aren't relics. Moreover, liturgical vessels are consecrated for use at the altar, and therefore, shouldn't be taken away for personal use (even if it's devotional use).


#6

[quote="Gorgias, post:5, topic:318024"]

No. Although people scream when I say it around here, the Eucharist is Christ's sacramental presence, not physical presence (Real and True Presence, but sacramental, not physical) -- the physical accidents are those of wine and bread. Therefore, liturgical vessels aren't relics. Moreover, liturgical vessels are consecrated for use at the altar, and therefore, shouldn't be taken away for personal use (even if it's devotional use).

[/quote]

One has to be careful with words in this (because people tend to get shocked easily on this subject!)... the accidents remain, the substance is Christ.

Remember that the Church uses the word 'substance' in its philosophical meaning - i.e. "what stands beneath/behind" : one might also use the word "realisation" when it comes to the consecrated species where it is Christ that we realise that we are seeing, just like when we see flour, yeast, water etc mixed together and cooked that we realise that we are seeing bread, and not just the constituent parts. You might say that the priest 'cooks' the unleavened bread by means of consecration and the result, through transubstantiation - that is the transforming of the substance of the bread - is Christ.

Thinking then about the actual physical materials that come into contact with the transubstantiated bread and wine: well they should be worthy and held special and apart from profane usage. They aren't for decoration or for casual usage, since we don't regard Christ in casual terms. They wouldn't however become 'relics' as such... sacramentals maybe - in that they may be blessed for their special purpose, but not relics... after all, if in coming into contact with the consecrated species everything became a 'relic', then every Catholic in the world having made his or her First Communion would instantly become a 'relic' - and I don't think you'll have heard anyone describe anyone as such!


#7

[quote="Gorgias, post:5, topic:318024"]
Good advice. However, I'm not sure it rises to the level of Eucharistic abuse: for the Eucharistic species to persist, they must retain the appearance of their accidents. Although a stain on a purificator has the appearance of a wine stain, I'm not certain I'd say that it retains the appearance of wine. Nevertheless, the purificator should be properly cleaned.

This is a novel suggestion; I've never seen it suggested that those who purify vessels (or those who come in contact with a used purificator) need to 'purify' their hands (either with or without holy water!)

[/quote]

It's just some of the things I've picked up as a Eucharistic minister for my parish. We started cleaning our hands with water and a finger towel before giving the Body of Christ and then cleansing them with Holy Water and a purificator after Communion. We also started cleansing our hands with Holy Water after Communion if we give the Blood of Christ since when he touch the purificator we are probably touching the Blood as we whip the rim after every person.

This one time a little old lady spilled some of the Blood so I had to soak it up with the purificator. After I thought I had gotten all the Blood the sacristan had me pour Holy Water over the spot then soak up the Holy Water with a purificator.

I was listening to another lady from my parish and she was talking about how she found a Communion wafer outside of a church and it looked like it had been stepped on, like no one noticed it was there. So she picked it up and took it to the priest of the parish and not knowing if it was already consecrated he gave her two options: 1) because it could be the Body of Christ she could eat it or 2) if she was not comfortable eating it because it was dirty she could bury it. Since it was dirty he didn't want the dirty to go down the piscina/sacrarium. I'm sure she could have left it with him and he would have eaten it, but I think he was testing her devotion.

:shrug:


#8

Eating it would have been okay, germs and all that notwithstanding. However, burying it was an incorrect suggestion. It is forbidden to bury the Eucharist.

If the Eucharist could no longer be consumed, then it should be placed in a worthy vessel, such as clean bowl filled with water, the the species should be allowed to dissolve completely such that the appearance of bread is gone, and therefore the Real Presence is also gone. This water should then be poured into the sacrarium, or if one is not available, into the ground or a potted plant that will not be trod upon or urinated on by animals, such as a fenced garden.


#9

[quote="porthos11, post:8, topic:318024"]
Eating it would have been okay, germs and all that notwithstanding. However, burying it was an incorrect suggestion. It is forbidden to bury the Eucharist.

If the Eucharist could no longer be consumed, then it should be placed in a worthy vessel, such as clean bowl filled with water, the the species should be allowed to dissolve completely such that the appearance of bread is gone, and therefore the Real Presence is also gone. This water should then be poured into the sacrarium, or if one is not available, into the ground or a potted plant that will not be trod upon or urinated on by animals, such as a fenced garden.

[/quote]

Yea, my Spanish isn't very good, but I think that's what she said. I think the priest was just trying to get her to eat it which is the best thing to do.


closed #10

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