Would this be considered a heresy?


#1

I read a long time back that Jesus died for future sins! Is this what the Church believes or is this just another heresy? If so, is that why some Christians believe they are “saved”?[[/font]http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/10_confused.gif[font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][size=2]unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_shock.gif[/size][[font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][size=2]unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_unsure.gif[/size]](“javascript:insertsmilie(’:shock:’)”)[[font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][size=2]unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_confused.gif[/size]](“javascript:insertsmilie(’:unsure:’)”)](“javascript: void(0);”)


#2

Jesus died for our sins. That has two meanings. First of all, He died to give us means of wiping away Original Sin. Secondly, He died to give us the ability to achieve salvation. That is to say, He saved mankind. As a result, individual men and women can be saved, if they folow His teachings.

Once saved, always saved (OSAS) is indeed a heresy.


#3

To me it makes sense that Christ died for all sins, past present and future. However, in order for that sacrifice on the cross to apply to us, we need to work at it day by day by relying on the Holy Spirit for guidance. All sins have died with Christ, but if we die still sticking to that which is dead, then we die too…spiritually…forever. That’s what Mortal Sin does.


#4

Christ redeemed us! This is often confused with the fundamentalist belief in salvation. Without the redemtion, we could not be saved, we are saved by the grace of God, but must remain in a state of grace to receive salvation.

Christ was the perfectly pure sacrifice that men or women could never accomplish to destroy the separation of us from God. Before Christ, only the highest Jewish rabbi’s we able to be in the inner temple, behind the curtain, to offer the sacrifices to God. This is the significance of the gospels stating the temple curtain was torn in two.


#5

[quote=Paris Blues]I read a long time back that Jesus died for future sins! Is this what the Church believes or is this just another heresy?

[/quote]

He died to offer atonement for sins. His offering was worthy enough to be able to offset all possible sins whether past, present, of future, and then some. But as someone already said, we must have it applied for it to work.

Contrary to general Protestant belief, He did not merely “suffer penalty” in our place. Rather, He “offered atonement” in our place. There is a big difference. The Protestant version says we must “believe” that it was suffered for us, and we thereby are exempt from punishment. The Catholic version says we must believe and thereby obtain grace in order to be able to be sanctified and work out our salvation in cooperation with God, doing penance and good works.

He purchased our redemption by His merit, and now we can follow Him through suffering to His glory. But we must take up our cross… And if we sin, we must obtain and apply the grace of His merit to be re-patriated.

OSAS believers are averse to “doing” anything for their salvation because they believe it would negate our trust in Christ having “paid the price” for us. But they would do well to distinguish between the redemption Christ purchased, and the salvation we must work out by applying this redemption to ourselves. So each future sin has indeed the capability of being loosed via the redemption Christ purchased, but it is not automatically done for us.

hurst


#6

[quote=hurst]He died to offer atonement for sins. His offering was worthy enough to be able to offset all possible sins whether past, present, of future, and then some. But as someone already said, we must have it applied for it to work.

Contrary to general Protestant belief, He did not merely “suffer penalty” in our place. Rather, He “offered atonement” in our place. There is a big difference. The Protestant version says we must “believe” that it was suffered for us, and we thereby are exempt from punishment. The Catholic version says we must believe and thereby obtain grace in order to be able to be sanctified and work out our salvation in cooperation with God, doing penance and good works.

He purchased our redemption by His merit, and now we can follow Him through suffering to His glory. But we must take up our cross… And if we sin, we must obtain and apply the grace of His merit to be re-patriated.

OSAS believers are averse to “doing” anything for their salvation because they believe it would negate our trust in Christ having “paid the price” for us. But they would do well to distinguish between the redemption Christ purchased, and the salvation we must work out by applying this redemption to ourselves. So each future sin has indeed the capability of being loosed via the redemption Christ purchased, but it is not automatically done for us.

hurst
[/quote]

Could you please expound on the supposed difference between “…purchased our redemption by His merit” and “’…paid the price’ for us.” as they sound synonymous. I understand that Catholics and Protestants have general tendencies to take these to different conclusions but it seems, to me, as if you are revealing a fundamental difference between the Catholic and Protestant statements as noted above.


#7

[quote=CollegeCatholic]Could you please expound on the supposed difference between “…purchased our redemption by His merit” and “’…paid the price’ for us.” as they sound synonymous.

[/quote]

Purchasing redemption, in the Catholic sense, has to do with delivering us from the slavery to the devil and to sin. We then must arise and go to obtain our salvation.

Romans 6:4 For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life.

Some go farther than others. Some help others to go. There are different levels of reward according to the work and conduct of each redeemed soul.

Apocalypse 22:12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to every man according to his works.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

It enables our salvation, but we must cooperate, exert gracious effort, and patiently run the race.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know you not that they that run in the race, all run indeed, but one receiveth the prize? So run that you may obtain.

Hebrews 12:1 … laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us …

Failing to do so will result in forfeiture of the redemption Christ won for us:

Galatians 5:21 Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

Matthew 5:13 You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt lose its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is good for nothing any more but to be cast out, and to be trodden on by men.

Romans 11:22 See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Consider Adam and Eve, who had grace, but fell. Obtaining grace does not guarantee salvation unless we cooperate with it.

So we especially honor those who have done more with the graces they obtained. They contribute to our salvation.

1 Timothy 5:17 Let the priests that rule well, be esteemed worthy of double honour: especially they who labour in the word and doctrine

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed to thyself and to doctrine: be earnest in them. For in doing this thou shalt both save thyself and them that hear thee.

We seek to atone for our own shortcomings and that of others. We strive for perfection, knowing that only the pure shall see God.

Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness: without which no man shall see God.

Etc. etc.

So you see, the Catholic understanding of what Christ did on the Cross is found in Scripture and in the culture of the Church.

But the Protestant understanding is so different, that it leads them to also reject much of what the Catholic Church is all about.

Paying the “price” for us, in the Protestant sense, has to do with something being done without our cooperation. The idea is that we accept it and thereby reserve a “ticket” to heaven when we die. Meanwhile, we continue as we are, since we can’t change ourselves (though many often act better sincerely out of gratitude or insincerely out of a pharisaical attempt to prove they have saving faith). The “ticket” simply excuses all our sins and allows us to be in heaven. Since no effort was or could be done, then everyone receives the exact same “reward” of eternal life, and the notion of Mary or various saints being at different levels of glory makes no sense. Purgatory is irrelevant too, since everything was “paid for” already. Indulgences are unnecessary and an abuse to collect money or control people via fear. Merits are contrary to the notion of such a salvation. Sacraments are optional signs of faith, since it is not any “work” that saves us, not even baptism. There is no specific leader or true church, since we don’t know who has true faith, and we should obey no one but God and call no man father. These are all conclusions contrary to Catholic doctrine and practice.

So this is why the “fine line” between Protestant and Catholic understanding of what Christ did is so critical, and represents a fault line that truly separates the two in a dramatic way. It seems so close, that many think it doesn’t matter much. But it is the very thing causing the discord. Such is heresy.

I hope you can see the fundamental difference better now.

hurst


closed #8

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