Would you loan the money?


#1

We have some friends who are getting a divorce. We have not heard from the wife who moved up north with the kids and would not allow her husband to see the kids except on her terms and with supervision. She did this because she thinks her husband is a sick person sexually because he did pornography for most of their married life.

Anyway, he has been to counseling and to sexual addiction classes in a non-denonminational church and says he is still working on his problems and is much better. He says that his problem should not prevent him from seeing his children. He has allowed his wife for one year to do as she wished because he didn’t want a divorce, but this year she filed for one. Now things are ugly. She stopped all visitations and told him he will never see the kids, so he had no choice but to hire a lawyer and go to court. The judge allowed him visitation without supervision.

They had mediation yesterday and she is asking him ,as part of the divorce settlement, to go to a sexual addiction place to be evaluated which his lawyer tells him usually has every man labeled as a pervert. It is probably why she picked the place. His lawyer suggested a forensic psychologist to evaluate both of them and the kids and this is very expensive, but would help him more than her. She has bipolar in her family and everyone suspect she has it. She was on medication for it when they were living together and went off of it and that is when she went off and took the kids to another state. Now this man has no money for he paid his attorney his fees which were $5,000.00. He is asking friends and family for $500.00 to come up with the money for the psychological evaluation. I know personally they are very expensive for my sister is having to have one done also on her ex and his family and it cost over $5,000.00 but well worth it. This man has made mistakes with his wife and was unfaithful, there is no doubt there and has spent most of his money on porn and wasted it, but now he needs money to protect his right to see his kids or he will never be able to see them without supervision if the judge believes her side if he has to go to this sexual addiction clinic for his evaluation.

Would you lend him the money, knowing you will probably never get paid back? By the way, we know his mother and she is like a mother to my dh. She has given us $100.00 every Christmas to cover our gifts for the whole year, birthday, anniversary and Christmas. She has opened her house and heart to us and treated us as family. She calls my dh one of her sons and me her daughter. She always tells my daughter to call her grandma. She has known me for 10 years and my husband longer. He took him into her home when his mother threw him out in the streets for wanting to be Catholic for she hated the Catholic religion. So we love this family. Part of us wants to help him and part of us doesn’t know if he will really use the money for this reason or for porn. My dh thinks he will use it for the psychologist for he sounded in despair of losing his kids and was crying. He does love his kids and that I know. He can’t ask his mother for she has used all her retirement money on him already and is out of it.


#2

I think given your history with this family, you owe them. But if you are concerned he will use the money for porn, why don’t you offer to write a check to the psychologist or to pay the psychologist’s bill rather than loaning him the money outright?


#3

Hi Nana3:

We are called to be wise stewards of God’s providence. That said, no, I would not lend a cent.

You are not a bank. You are being asked to become a bank, on a handshake loan with no interest, for people of clearly questionable morals. No more, no less.

The entire “situation” sounds, quite frankly, like a pandora’s box. Some observations:

  1. ANY use of money, IMHO, for people with problems involving words like “lawyer,” “lawyer’s fees,” “porn,” “divorce,” “psychological evaluations,” “losing visitations,” “sexual addition,” etc., is probably, on a general level, risky financially and probably morally ambiguous, at best.

  2. On a specific level, the parties involved seem deeply troubled, and not likely to be wise stewards of their money…much less yours…

  3. …and you acknowledge that there is no assurance the money will be used for the intended purpose. It may be used for porn, Enuff said.

  4. To the extent there is an issue with losing visitation, etc., any “situation” may be painted in terms of deleterious effects…the question is, is this loan something which helps solve a problem or simply digs someone a deeper hole?

  5. Most of all, you are setting a terrible precedent that you can be “hit up” whenever there is a need. Even if there is no intent to do so now, the borrower will remember who lent the money…when he needs another loan…for just this one court hearing where he will absolutely lose visitation unless his lawyer fees are paid, pretty please with sugar on top…and so on, and so on.

I would not lend anyone $0.10, particularly in this economy, without a promissory note prepared by an attorney at commercially reasonable interest…in fact, higher, since that is the side effect of the borrower making a nontraditional loan, i.e., not from a bank.

Good luck with this. You seem like a nice person, Please, please, keep your hard earned $.


#4

Sorry flyingfish, I respectfully disagree w/ you.

Christmas gifts, etc., do not, IMHO, obligate us to make the sort of gift contemplated (and it is a gift, not a loan). This sounds like a very troubled family and a pandora’s box being opened.

As to paying the psychologist: What will happen when the borrower asks for his legal fees to be paid? B/c that is what will happen next if Nana3 makes her loan…


#5

But the mother of this man took in the OP’s husband when his own parents kicked him out, she gave him a place to sleep, fed him.

I don’t know, if someone had done that for me I would feel I owed their family big time.


#6

this sounds like a case that will need a lot more money than just the fee you are asking about. don’t get involved financially unless you plan on funding other fees.

praying for these folks is what they need right now.


#7

If you feel comfortable giving the money, then write the check directly to whoever is doing the evaluation or write it to the attorney. This way, you know exactly what it will be spent on.


#8

I'd certainly want God's guidance and God's superior knowledge to be in operation here, because regardless of what either parent wants, what obligations exist, and what tears flow, the main concern here is the children's welfare in all regards.


#9

Very harsh treatment here for this guy indeed. I have to keep going back to say, let him who cast the first stone be the first to throw it.

Loan him the money if you feel he can repay you back, if not, do so out of charity, what he does with it, hopefully will go to a good cause, if not, you will know either way and it’s still not your credit or fault at all, you just were trying to help and since you have resources that aren’t doing anything, might as well put them to use… I’m betting on the former, not the latter on this one, but it wouldn’t hurt to ask him to attend mass with you some time…


#10

I don't think it's good to lend money to friends or family because it changes the relationship. Giving it to them it is fine if you can afford to do it. But don't give it to the addict.


#11

No, don't loan him the money ever expecting to get it back. You can give him the money if you like but don't loan it to him.

BTW, I've never heard of anybody actually spending any money on porn. There is no need it seems when the stuff is given out for free.


#12

Nana,

I agree with some of the others that this is just a very murky, troubled situation. When you're talking about lawyers and cases and psychologists and sexual deviancy, etc....I'm afraid that your $500 would only be a drop in the bucket. Unless you're prepared to bankroll the rest of the whole sage, this man is going to HAVE to find some other alternate solution or arrangements. So that being said, if I was in your shoes I don't think I would lend him the money.

Ultimately though, it's up to you. I think you should pray to God for wisdom, prudence and discernment about this matter. Despite all the concerns, if you really do feel that you're being called to give him the money out of charity...then of course go ahead and give it to him, but just don't expect to get it back because you almost certainly won't. It'd be a gift, not a loan.


#13

[quote="flyingfish, post:2, topic:179884"]
I think given your history with this family, you owe them. But if you are concerned he will use the money for porn, why don't you offer to write a check to the psychologist or to pay the psychologist's bill rather than loaning him the money outright?

[/quote]

I agree with above poster - rather than give him cash or check, write a check to the provider.


#14

Yes, I would and I have done this exact thing. A good friend of mine from high school was also in a serious custody battle for his child and needed money for various things like the psychologist eval, etc.

I did give him money, not as a loan but as a gift. I did not ever expect to see it back and even though he said "I'll pay you back" I knew he wouldn't because he couldn't. So, I gave him the money out of love.

If you want to give him the money, do so. You don't owe it to him nor do you owe his family. His mother gave you gifts out of love and you don't owe anything because of that. Don't be guilted into anything.

If you feel comfortable doing so, and feel called to give money, then give it.

Just know there are always two sides. I found out some things about my friend later that were disturbing.


#15

Out of respect for his mother, I would give (not loan) him some $ only if I could totally afford it and it didn't impact my own family in the least. This is NOT the sort of situation I would sacrifice for at all... he choose to sin, this is the fallout from that sin. I'd pray for him and support his recovery - although why is going to a non-denom church to get it? My guess is he's now "saved" and will leave the Catholic Church. Out of the frying paning, into the fryer so to speak.

What a mess. :(

As a side note, I wouldn't want my children around someone who was addicted to sex/porn. Maybe the children's mother knows best?


#16

Never loan money to friends or family.

If you have the money and want to give it as a gift, then, do that.


#17

I agree with the advice to give and not loan the money, if that is possible for you given your financial situation.

Custody evaluations are very expensive, in the neighborhood of $15,000 or so. They would both need to come up with the money if they are to go this route.

With where he is at in this specific situation, here is the advice that I would give him. I would deny her request to be evaluated. The full on psychological review of both of them that his lawyer is recommending is what would be best. I would counter her request with that, even if he does not have the means to pay for it, but just to show the need that they both should be subject to evaluation.

He has already done his part and it is unlikely that the court will pander to his wife. If he does not expose the children to pornography or abuse them in any way she does not have a case for him losing his custody. Does he have a decision from the mediation yet? If he is given unsupervised visitation, and she refuses that order, she could be the one that ends up losing custody.


#18

If I could afford it, I would just give it to him as a gift…without the expectation of being repayed…but put a cap on it. If you loan it, the borrower become a slave to the lender…it is never wise to lend money to friends or family…If $300 is all you can afford, then tell him you can’t give anymore in the future, but you can give him that amount not as a loan, but as a gift…it is between him and God how he spends it…it is not up to you to audit how he spends it once you give it to him. He has come to you as a friend/family and asked for help…live the Beattitudes…I don’t remember Jesus stating during His Sermon on The Mount…“do these things for the least of my bretheren as long as they haven’t committed any sins and their story checks out”.


#19

[quote="KostyaJMJ, post:11, topic:179884"]
No, don't loan him the money ever expecting to get it back. You can give him the money if you like but don't loan it to him.

BTW, I've never heard of anybody actually spending any money on porn. There is no need it seems when the stuff is given out for free.

[/quote]

I've always said that if anyone is spending money on porn with all of the absolutely free stuff online they must have a really bad problem. It is a fact that you can spend years online viewing full length hard core pornography for hours on end and not pay a single dime and still never see the same scene twice.

Yet the porn industry made over $100,000,000,000 last year. Did you catch that? ONE HUNDRED BILLION! Is there any question that this culture is in trouble?


#20

I personally do not loan money. If I have it, I give it with no expectation of being repaid. What I've done in the past when I've been able to give money is told the recipient, "Pay it forward. When you're in a position to help someone out, do so."

Just my two cents.


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