Would you take a vow of fidelity to the Magesterium?


#1

This is a question for Catholics only please.

If a vow of fidelity to the Magesterium of the Church were required to be Catholic, would you still be Catholic?

I’m sure this question will somehow be interpreted in a way other than the way I’m meaning it, so based on responses I reserve the right to tweak this question at a later date. :slight_smile:

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:


#2

[quote=Catholic4aReasn]This is a question for Catholics only please.

If a vow of fidelity to the Magesterium of the Church were required to be Catholic, would you still be Catholic?

I’m sure this question will somehow be interpreted in a way other than the way I’m meaning it, so based on responses I reserve the right to tweak this question at a later date. :slight_smile:

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Where do I sign?

If by “vow” you mean public affirmation, then I already have in a way.

The Inquirer application for the Confraternity of Penitents asks:

[font=Arial]Do you understand that only Catholics who accept all the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and remain in union with the Pope and Magisterium of the Catholic Church can become official members of this Confraternity? [/font]


#3

Have you seen the profession of faith for those received into the church that was drawn up at the Council of Trent? Every convert had profess it. (Today, they affirm that they believe all the church teaches, and don’t recite the specifics, which is fine, since they’ve just completed instruction in the teachings.)

To be Catholic is to be prepared to make this profession, or a similar one, at the drop of a hat, without reservation.

A vow of fidelity to the Magisterium? The one protected from teaching error in faith and morals by God the Holy Spirit? Any time!

Blessings,

Gerry


#4

I think I did that when I entered the Church last year at the Easter Vigil.


#5

Don’t we do this every time we recite the Creed during Mass???


#6

[quote=Catholic4aReasn]This is a question for Catholics only please.

If a vow of fidelity to the Magesterium of the Church were required to be Catholic, would you still be Catholic?

I’m sure this question will somehow be interpreted in a way other than the way I’m meaning it, so based on responses I reserve the right to tweak this question at a later date. :slight_smile:

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I am sorry. I voted before reading the post and didn’t realise it was for Catholics only. I don’t want to mess up the results so I would appreciate it if a mod could delete my vote.


#7

[quote=Catholic4aReasn]This is a question for Catholics only please.

If a vow of fidelity to the Magesterium of the Church were required to be Catholic, would you still be Catholic?

I’m sure this question will somehow be interpreted in a way other than the way I’m meaning it, so based on responses I reserve the right to tweak this question at a later date. :slight_smile:

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:
[/quote]

All the purposes such a vow might fulfil, are fulfilled in our being confirmed as Catholics - so such a vow is entirely unnecessary: there is no function for it to perform, theologically or otherwise. Which is why it is safe to say that no such thing will ever be required.

Besides, vows can be dispensed - but docility to the teaching office of the Church cannot - we arealready obliged by our Baptism to hear the teaching of the Church and to be faithful to it; so this docility (which is the issue that would be involved in such a vow as that suggested) is not the proper subject-matter for a vow.

Which is why I voted “no”.

One cannot have, as the subject-matter of a vow, an exercise of obedience which is already an obligation; because if there is an obligation already, we are not free to act otherwise. A Dominican cannot take a vow to pray the Rosary - it is already part of his life as a Dominican; for vowing a vow, implies freedom to act otherwise than is being vowed.

One is free to change the mode in which one is being (say) chaste: so that allows room for a vow - what cannot be changed, is the obligation to be chaste. Which is how a monastic vow of chastity is possible; there is a function in the Church for such a vow to perform. But there is no means of changing the mode of one’s docility to the Magisterium - one is docile, or one is not: there is no change in one’s manner of life which allows for such a vow to be possible,by having a function in the Church to perform ##


#8

[quote=mercygate]Where do I sign?

If by “vow” you mean public affirmation, then I already have in a way.

The Inquirer application for the Confraternity of Penitents asks:

[font=Arial]Do you understand that only Catholics who accept all the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and remain in union with the Pope and Magisterium of the Catholic Church can become official members of this Confraternity? [/font]
[/quote]

Gimie that pen!!


#9

[quote=Gottle of Geer]## All the purposes such a vow might fulfil, are fulfilled in our being confirmed as Catholics - so such a vow is entirely unnecessary: there is no function for it to perform, theologically or otherwise. Which is why it is safe to say that no such thing will ever be required.

Besides, vows can be dispensed - but docility to the teaching office of the Church cannot - we arealready obliged by our Baptism to hear the teaching of the Church and to be faithful to it; so this docility (which is the issue that would be involved in such a vow as that suggested) is not the proper subject-matter for a vow.

Which is why I voted “no”.

One cannot have, as the subject-matter of a vow, an exercise of obedience which is already an obligation; because if there is an obligation already, we are not free to act otherwise. A Dominican cannot take a vow to pray the Rosary - it is already part of his life as a Dominican; for vowing a vow, implies freedom to act otherwise than is being vowed.

One is free to change the mode in which one is being (say) chaste: so that allows room for a vow - what cannot be changed, is the obligation to be chaste. Which is how a monastic vow of chastity is possible; there is a function in the Church for such a vow to perform. But there is no means of changing the mode of one’s docility to the Magisterium - one is docile, or one is not: there is no change in one’s manner of life which allows for such a vow to be possible,by having a function in the Church to perform ##
[/quote]

My question was really just a hypothetical situation. I thought it went without saying that it would never really happen.

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:


#10

[quote=YinYangMom]Don’t we do this every time we recite the Creed during Mass???
[/quote]

I think a lot of people recite the creed at church without really thinking about what they’re saying. Certainly there are Catholics who, for example, use birth control or support abortion rights who say that creed every Sunday right along with everyone else.

In Christ,
Nancy :slight_smile:


#11

While I would quickly and without hesitation, sign such a vow at this point in my life, and I hope and pray that I will remain so disposed for the rest of my life, I don’t know that I would have gotten here with the need for such a vow hanging over my head when I was younger.

When I was just returning to the Church, the simple fact that the creed talks of the One, Holy, catholic and Apostolic church made all the difference in my being able to say it in good faith or not. I wasn’t quite certain that I believe in the Catholic Church, but I could accept the concept of the catholic church (after I looked up the word catholic and found it meant universal). I’m glad that the church is so pastoral in her approach to Catholics who are nominal in their faith, as it gives us time to put our toes in the water and check things out, without fighting the workings of the Holy Spirit. And I’m really happy that the Holy Spirit guided me back home!

Just my thoughts on the subject. Oh, and I definitely voted yes, as I’d sign now in a heartbeat, even as I would not suggest such a thing ever being a good thing to require.

CARose


#12

Catholic4aReasn

[quote=Catholic4aReasn] Certainly there are Catholics who, for example, use birth control or support abortion rights who say that creed every Sunday right along with everyone else.
[/quote]

If they do not adhere to the traditions and commandments and submit to the Magisterium are they Catholic?
Peace,
David


#13

Catholic4aReasn

[quote=Catholic4aReasn] Certainly there are Catholics who, for example, use birth control or support abortion rights who say that creed every Sunday right along with everyone else.
[/quote]

If they do not adhere to the traditions and commandments and submit to the Magisterium are they Catholic?
Peace,
David


#14

I did take a vow of fidelity to the Magesterium, and I renewed it in April and of course every Sunday. It’s what you call Baptism, Confirmation, and Communion.

-ACEGC


#15

[quote=David Puthoff]Catholic4aReasn

If they do not adhere to the traditions and commandments and submit to the Magisterium are they Catholic?
Peace,
David
[/quote]

If they sell arms, or engage in terrorism, or spy for a foreign power, or smuggle drugs, or beat their wives to a pulp, or defraud their employees, are they Catholic ?

All schism is disobedient - otherwise it would not be schism; but not all disobedience is schism. If we remember that, we won’t unchurch our fellow Catholics.

Being a thoroughly foul human being is quite compatible with being Catholic. For which let us all be very grateful. ##


#16

IF it were required to be Catholic, I’d gladly take it.

IF IT WERE NOT, and that is the present-day case, no. Vows should never be taken unless absolutely necessary.


#17

I thought I already did when I was received into the Church.


#18

[quote=JKirkLVNV]I thought I already did when I was received into the Church.
[/quote]

Me too…


#19

[quote=Annunciata]Me too…
[/quote]

and me.


#20

[quote=David Puthoff]Catholic4aReasn

If they do not adhere to the traditions and commandments and submit to the Magisterium are they Catholic?
Peace,
David
[/quote]

David,

Yes, they are Catholic. We’re family; one may choose one’s friends, but one is pretty much stuck with family.

  • Liberian

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