Hard to believe it’s been 20 years since Ellen came out. Also weird thinking back to when such an event was a huge deal. A lot has changed in 20 years in that regard. Out actors and characters on TV are not particularly unusual anymore.
Every BBC series and soap "has"to have a gay "wedding… PC you know, :rolleyes:
Have you watched the afternoon game shows, like “Wheel of Fortune” and Jeopardy" lately? The homosexual participants talk about their spouses without any embarrassment. Neither the hosts, nor the audience bats an eye, and obviously the sponsors keep their commercials on the air. They don’t mind. And this change came in a measly 20 years! Jolly good show, I daresay!
Thankfully, not on “Father Brown”…
I passed by a show on the tube the other day where a man was “coming out” to his mother and the big deal is that it was being broadcast live on TV. Moral objections aside, I just don’t understand why people can’t just keep their private lives private anymore. When I meet someone the last thing on my mind is “Gee, what is your sexual preference?” This society has such tunnel vision on sexuality it is maddening.
I can remember 1997, but I don’t think I even knew who Ellen was then.
I guess my immediate reaction to your post is, “What would have happened to an actor, prior to then, who came out?” But that’s more of a rhetorical than actual question.
Dunno to be honest. I remember the huge deal it was when Ellen came out and the backlash she caught for it. I can imagine the earlier you go the more that reaction would have intensified.
A “C” list second rate comedienne.
Apparently you’re right. I found this on Wikipedia just now:
In 1997, DeGeneres came out as lesbian. The disclosure of her sexual orientation sparked intense interest by American tabloids. The contentiousness of the media coverage stunted DeGeneres’ professional career and left her “mired in depression”. In her book Love, Ellen, DeGeneres’ mother, Betty DeGeneres describes being initially shocked when her daughter came out, but she has since become one of her strongest supporters; she is also an active member of Parents & Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) and spokesperson for the Human Rights Campaign’s Coming Out Project.
From a Catholic pov, I wish more people would read the USCCB’s document “Always Our Children”.
Highlights in victrolatim’s quote mine :
I think that is a really direct, excellent point.
Edit: I also noticed this, in the article in the OP,
Winfrey, who played Ellen’s therapist, told the AP she had no clue that “I would get the worst hate mail of my career.”
I find that the more I learn, the more I can understand why we – conservatives – have trouble getting traction when we seek to get our message out. :o
Yrs,I have noticed this and it is just so silly,these gay guys and gals referring to their husbands,wives,blechhhhhhh:rolleyes:
You got that right. Not just the message is problematic, but the excuse: “we hate what you do, but we love you, and want to save your soul” is unconvincing. I heard a quick rebuttal: “worry about your own salvation, I will worry about mine”.
I understand, but you are a minuscule and ever shrinking minority. Get used to it.
Oh I don’t think I will ever get used to it;)
But what makes you sure that the message is problematic? (I mean the simple message that homosexual sex is wrong, not the stuff that comes out of Breitbart.)
Why would it be “wrong”? Love is love, and sometimes it is expressed in a sexual act.
Its accepted because majority of people have been successfully desensitized to homosexual relationships, marriage. This process did not take long at all.
And I believe the same process will be used again and again, for all sorts of crazy stuff, heck I can see it happening the last couple years with pedophilia, its in the news almost daily, its not shocking anymore to hear teacher and other adults who are caught having relationships with students or younger people…historically this is always the first step.
Satan is pretty good at convincing us more serious sin is not that bad, once we give in a little bit.
**Ramble time because I have no ability to talk concisely **
A lot of it is the why the message has been delivered, the lack of addressing other sexual morality issues creating this feeling of complete and utter hypocrisy by many, the feeling of the teaching to call out unjust discrimination is often just words to some, Catholic associated sites like Litesitenews or Crisis who seem to lack any and utter charity towards gay people, treat them as the enemy basically in the culture war and create an US vs Them.
For example, Beauty and the Beast lead to a huge freak out for having a gay character who never kissed another guy, just apparently had a short dance seen where you could infer his orientation. Big Bang Theory, a hit comedy show, regularly has the characters hook up and have premarital sex and no one says a peep. Some prominent figure in real life talks about their same sex spouse… the world is ending. A person who is married to their 3rd spouse… nothing. The rampant use of contraception even among Catholics… rarely made a big deal about. A person says they’re gay… many freak out and view them as now supporting or going to some kind of inherently hedonistic lifestyle. A person divorces and announces they’re marriage to someone else… nope nothing. When it feels like heterosexual sin is widely tolerated while homosexual sin (and some cases just having the temptations) is viewed as the most evil thing possible… doesn’t matter how you word the message, people are going to feel like it’s not legitimate.
Not to mention we have a culture, including widespread in Christian culture, that basically idolatrizes romantic sexual love and as devalued friendship so much that for many people, not being able to express love in a sexual romantic relationship translates to them as being without love their entire life. We have done a terrible job at making our church communities into fellowship of brothers and sisters in Christ. Too often it feels like a Sunday social club where many leave the second they can to return to their lives with their families. When you’re the celibate single and people don’t seem like they willing to make time for you, it hurts. When it feels like you’re the one constantly sacrificing and bending over backwards to try and help married friends who seemingly push you out of their lives as they enter ‘the married life state’ and find couple friends, it’s hard not to feel unwanted and ‘stuck.’ The truth is our church culture (Christian at large) doesn’t talk about supporting people in celibate vocations ever yet has tremendous amount of resources, support, ministries etc towards the vocation of marriage. It gives off the impression that everyone will do everything in their power to help the married couple succeed while basically telling the celibate person to figure it out on their own (and if they’re a gay/ssa celibate person… then to figure it out on their own, don’t disclose your attractions, and don’t appear ‘too gay’ because that makes everyone else uncomfortable apparently). Also when is the last time we focused on the love that can be found in friendship, discussed the amazing friendship between David and Jonathan, talked about and upheld celibate people in general?.. Rather Christian culture gushes only over married people (particular those with children) and often treats single people as spiritual immature or something is wrong with them (especially if they’re gay/ssa).
With all of these factors in play, it isn’t the Church teaching that is the issue. Society and culture as a poor perspective on love, their is a lack of vocational support in celibacy (people often have the perspective of it’s hard therefore I must not have the calling yet we realize marriage vocation isn’t always easy so there is a faulty perspective there), and their is blatant hypocrisy on how other sin issues are addressed. With all that in mind, the Church teachings to many feel like nothing more than empty words. That is why I think places like spiritualfriendship.org are so valuable. They kinda have some extra points when addressing gay/ssa people since they not only actively trying to live within a traditional teaching while dealing with sexuality issues, but they are trying to support and uphold others with that same cross. They (in my view) have been able to do far more than Courage simply because unlike Courage (which has valid reasons for this), the writers in spiritual friendship are more open thus provide physical rather than abstract examples of people.
Okay something that is often poorly expressed is this. The issue is not that two people of the same sex love each other. That is not the problem. Love between two people of the same sex can be strong and extremely powerful. The issue is that from Catholic teaching, that love should not be expressed sexually. As sex, according to our teaching, as a specific purpose (i.e. be open to life and within a marriage). Our society has so devalued non-sexual love that we fail to see the power that is in it. I take heart in John 15:13 where the greatest love is not between spouses, but a friend to die for another friend. You also have biblical examples of powerful friendships with strong love. When did love = sexual romantic love? Christian culture is partially to blame as there is a large part that basically idolatrize marriage and the nuclear family (and devalues singleness or celibate vocations) while secular culture obsesses with finding ‘the one’ to complete one, but we must remember how strong non-sexual love can be. So hope this somewhat addresses your point.