"...You who take the place of Christ..."

(Just had to pass this along!)

St. Peter Damian, writing to Pope Nickolas II, (A.D. 1059), “deplores the situation in which bishops live in public concubinage to the scandal of some, and to the delight of others who ridicule the leadership of the Church on this account” (p. 3).

Listen to how St. Damian, himself a Reformer, speaks of the singular dignity of the Roman Pontiff:

But you, my lord and venerable pope, you who take the place of Christ, and the successor to the supreme shepherd in apostolic dignity, do not through sloth allow this pestilence to grow, do not by conniving and dissimulation loosen the reigns on this raging impurity. – Letter 61:14

Peter Damian: Letters 61-90 (Fathers of the Church, Medieval Continuation), Owen J. Blum, trs., Catholic University of America Press, 1992, ISBN 0813207509, p. 12
books.google.com/books?id=9smLdu9BvK0C&pg=RA1-PA12&dq=%22But+you,+my+lord+and+venerable+pope,+you+who+take+the+place+of+%22&lr=&as_brr=0#v=onepage&q=%22But%20you%2C%20my%20lord%20and%20venerable%20pope%2C%20you%20who%20take%20the%20place%20of%20%22&f=false

This entire letter (or at least as much as Google books allows) ought to be read and studied. A bit pricey, but the book is well worth purchasing too. Contains some great historical info.

No man will ever take the place of Yeshua the savior nor shall I bow to anything or anyone ever! Take my head, bruise my body I will stand tried and true. I will worship in secret to the unseen. The King of King Lords of Lords! No man is over me nor am I over any man!

Hallelu-JAH!!!

Sorry all I had to pray out loud…lol

It means that the Bishop of Rome is Christ’s regent on earth until Jesus returns - that is, he stands in the place of Jesus as shepherd of the flock (and exercises His authority) while he’s away. It doesn’t mean that the pope takes the place of Christ as lord and savior.

The titles “King of kings” and “Lord of lords” mean that there are men who are over others, but Christ is even among them–it doesn’t mean there are no kings or lords. This is why the Scriptures tell us to give honor to whom honor is due and to be subject to legitimate authority.

In regards to the Church, if you read the New Testament, especially Acts and the Epistles, you will not see a completely egalitarian Church. Rather, the 12 are set “over” the others–and Peter acts as head of the 12. The office “episcopos” or bishop used in the New Testament means an over-seer. Even the office of pastor implies the relationship of a shepherd over sheep. Read the passages of Scripture that deal with these offices and you will see what I mean.

Also see 2 Cor. 2:10 where St. Paul, an Apostle, says he is acting in the person of Christ. In other words, in the place of Christ.

I just wanted to add this passage which perfectly illustrates this concept. This is a parable Jesus tells directly to Peter. It is about a Master who leaves one servant in charge of the His family until He returns. He also warns of what will happen if the steward who was placed over the others abuses his position:

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said: Who (thinkest thou) is the faithful and wise steward, whom his lord setteth over his family, to give them their measure of wheat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom when his lord shall come, he shall find so doing. 44 Verily I say to you, he will set him over all that he possesseth.

Notice, the Lord does put men over other members of his family.

Oh you’d not only bow, but you’d kneel too - that is, had you lived in Calvin’s frightful Geneva and had dared to speak irreverently of the “Great Preacher!”

On January 16, 1537, Farel and Calvin got the city council to enact their religious program, to be enforced by a code of “blue laws.”

One of the principal burghers, who had made fun of the doctrine of salvation and of the person of Calvin—the Great Preacher—had to kneel down in the public square, holding an inverted torch, and to ask pardon before the people. On the proposal of the general assembly, the death penalty was enacted for adultery; a man, convicted under this law, when about to be executed, had to bless God for the stern laws of his country.

(Leopold von Ranke, Histoire de France, I, 164)

*Histoire de France, principalement pendant le XVIe et le XVIIe siècle *(History of France during the 16th and 17th centuries), 1854, Leopold von Ranke, Tome Priemier, vol. 1, p. 164.

books.google.com/books?id=lZUtAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA164&dq=%22Une+femme+fut+br%C3%BBl%C3%A9e+pour+avoir+chant%C3%A9+des+chansons+impudiques%22&lr=#v=onepage&q=%22Une%20femme%20fut%20br%C3%BBl%C3%A9e%20pour%20avoir%20chant%C3%A9%20des%20chansons%20impudiques%22&f=false

See my earlier post:
forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=5143000&postcount=94

Yep, everyone had to grovel before the “Great Preacher!”

Think maybe Calvin could have been an anti-christ?! LOL!

Calvin, Luther, Pope the Innocent, The Queen of Heaven (Jer 7 and 44) It don’t matter…I have that reservation for my King and only him. Come that day I will be given the strength and grace to stand resolute!

But we must love the Church also, because the Church is Christ! If you reject his Church, you reject him!

I understand where you come from. I come from that same school of thought. I will stand on the faith of the unseen. Nothing will separate me from the love of the almighty. I will continue to love you no matter what we are brothers.

FollowYeshua, what we’re referring to is a parallel to Isaiah 22… the King is Jesus, and the Pope is like the ‘prime minister’ who was given the keys… read Isaiah 22, in it the “prime minister” was also given the “keys to the kingdom”, and that’s the phrase Jesus used when He spoke to Peter and made him the first Pope. We’re not talking about idolatry here, but the role that Christ gave to the Pope. God bless

[quote=Genesis315]The titles “King of kings” and “Lord of lords” mean that there are men who are over others, but Christ is even among them–it doesn’t mean there are no kings or lords. This is why the Scriptures tell us to give honor to whom honor is due and to be subject to legitimate authority.

In regards to the Church, if you read the New Testament, especially Acts and the Epistles, you will not see a completely egalitarian Church. Rather, the 12 are set “over” the others–and Peter acts as head of the 12. The office “episcopos” or bishop used in the New Testament means an over-seer. Even the office of pastor implies the relationship of a shepherd over sheep. Read the passages of Scripture that deal with these offices and you will see what I mean.

Also see 2 Cor. 2:10 where St. Paul, an Apostle, says he is acting in the person of Christ. In other words, in the place of Christ.
[/quote]

[quote=Genesis315]I just wanted to add this passage which perfectly illustrates this concept. This is a parable Jesus tells directly to Peter. It is about a Master who leaves one servant in charge of the His family until He returns. He also warns of what will happen if the steward who was placed over the others abuses his position:

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said: Who (thinkest thou) is the faithful and wise steward, whom his lord setteth over his family, to give them their measure of wheat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom when his lord shall come, he shall find so doing. 44 Verily I say to you, he will set him over all that he possesseth.

Notice, the Lord does put men over other members of his family.
[/quote]

[quote=Follow Yeshua]No man will ever take the place of Yeshua the savior nor shall I bow to anything or anyone ever! Take my head, bruise my body I will stand tried and true. I will worship in secret to the unseen. The King of King Lords of Lords! No man is over me nor am I over any man!

Hallelu-JAH!!!

Sorry all I had to pray out loud…lol
[/quote]

FY, Alleluia. Great exultation. No, have no prblem with that, could have said it me self and done it many times too. But ain’t you are barking at the wrong tree here?

The preceding posts explain it very well; for your kind information.

God bles you.

Did Ha-Shem go from unseen to seen at the Incarnation?

Yes indeed. He also walked in the Garden. In his current state (seated at the right hand of Jehovah,) he is unseen. But through faith he is evident to me. I will rely on the holy word of God and the spirit.

I like the many names of our God. I’m not a messianic Jew but I then again if we were all grafted into the olive tree of Israel we are all messianic Jews in spirit.

Whats your favorite name of God?

Well I who was raised a Jew, do disagree with you about Him being unseen. I also find it rude to use the Name of El Shaddai written (and mis-spelled at that) But that too is my Jewish upbringing.

Sorry to have been rude. God bless you.

Psalms 68:4
Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

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