"You will crush the devil and he will bite your heel" Who? A Woman? Or her child?


#1

Please clarify this quote for me, and please provide sources! Someone told me that it's saying a woman will crush the devil, but I say it's saying her SON will do that. Thanks!


#2

Its referring to Mary and her Child Jesus.


#3

The Devil bruised the heel of man by introducing sin, but the Devil's head will be crushed by Jesus. Its a prophecy about the coming of Christ.


#4

The Miraculous Medal shows Mary crushing the head of the serpent but we all know that she does so by Christ's will. Whether it's Mary's foot or Christ's foot, it is Christ doing the crushing.That's all that matters. It's a proven fact though, that the devil fears Mary more than Jesus. :thumbsup:


#5

The Woman is Mary, but also an image of the Church. The depth of Mariology is incredible.

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers: she will crush your head, and you will strike her heel (Genesis 3:15)

The original text, the Biblia Sacra Vulgata of the IV Century AD, reads clearly:

ipsa conteret caput tuum et tu insidiaberis calcaneo eius

It is common-sense that he bites the heel since the foot is on top of his hear or neck. However, it would perhaps not be entirely erroneous - when translating to the vernacular - to consider that ipsa might be both feminine and neutral, thus referring both to the Woman and to her offspring...which is indeed consistent with Sacred Tradition...it's not either/or...

Now consider some further passages worth knowing.

But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. (Galatians 4:26)

I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. (Revelation 21)

A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. ...] Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon ...] She gave birth to a son who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away from the dragon and was caught up to God and to his throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God ...] This great dragon--the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world--was thrown down to the earth with all his angels. ...] When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. And the dragon was angry with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her offspring: those who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12)

As for whether or not these signs refer to Christ and to Mary, consider the following extended quote from Revelation 12 (part of which was omitted above):

The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

Thus now consider the following two statements made by Christ:

I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. (Luke 10:18)

Now is the judgment of the world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
(John 12:31)

So, the answer is yes. The Woman will do it, Her son will do it, and we will do it. For the Woman is the Son's Mother from whom the Son took flesh, and we are members of the Son's body, which we call the Church, and as such the offspring of the Mother.

There is unity that almost escapes our comprehension, for the Woman is at once Daughter of the Father, Mother of the Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit...and we are at once the Children of the Father and of the Woman, Brothers of the Son, in the unity of the Holy Spirit.

Consider what the Catechism has to say...I just quote one short part:

she is a "preeminent and ... wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus) of the Church.

And SaintPatrick333 is to be praised for his statement on Satan's fear of Our Lady. In fact, in his pride, He dared to approach and tempt Christ and to try to interfere with His preaching through the possessed - of course, Christ allowed him - but Satan will never dare to even look at Our Lady...and, also, the devil has been allowed to tempt and even strike at our saints, but, as St. Therese of Lisieux writes, the devil is terrified and driven away by the look of a little child...


#6

[quote="SaintPatrick333, post:4, topic:310719"]
It's a proven fact though, that the devil fears Mary more than Jesus. :thumbsup:

[/quote]

That's very thought provoking... how so?


#7

[quote="may_they_be_one, post:6, topic:310719"]
That's very thought provoking... how so?

[/quote]

One explanation I've read is that Satan is not as much disturbed as by his defeat by Christ - who is God - or by St. Michael who is an archangel and, in a way, a peer, but he is incredibly distressed by confrontation with Our Lady because she, after all, is just a creature, a human, and thus lesser than an angel...and yet because of her role she was made Queen of Angels...and it is intolerable for him who wants to consider himself God to be subject to her authority.

Edit: I found one place where I had read it, namely "Treatise on True Devotion" by St. Louis de Montfort

God has established only one enmity - but it is an irreconcilable one - which will last and even go on increasing to the end of time. That enmity is between Mary, his worthy Mother, and the devil, between the children and the servants of the Blessed Virgin and the children and followers of Lucifer.

Thus the most fearful enemy that God has set up against the devil is Mary, his holy Mother. From the time of the earthly paradise, although she existed then only in his mind, he gave her such a hatred for his accursed enemy, such ingenuity in exposing the wickedness of the ancient serpent and such power to defeat, overthrow and crush this proud rebel, that Satan fears her not only more than angels and men but in a certain sense more than God himself.

This does not mean that the anger, hatred and power of God are not infinitely greater than the Blessed Virgin's, since her attributes are limited. It simply means that Satan, being so proud, suffers infinitely more in being vanquished and punished by a lowly and humble servant of God, for her humility humiliates him more than the power of God.

Moreover, God has given Mary such great power over the evil spirits that, as they have often been forced unwillingly to admit through the lips of possessed persons, they fear one of her pleadings for a soul more than the prayers of all the saints, and one of her threats more than all their other torments.


#8

[quote="may_they_be_one, post:6, topic:310719"]
That's very thought provoking... how so?

[/quote]

There is a growing understanding by those theologians studying exorcisms...that the devil indeed fears Mary and has deep respect for her.....and a growing understanding that the final battle....will be between two created beings....not between Jesus and the Devil as is widely believed by the Rapture believers.....the created beings being Mary and Satan.....between the obedience, humility and love and charity of Mary versus the pride, disobedience of Satan.

Here is the opening chapter of the book The Rite:

stgemmagalgani.com/2009/05/exorcisms-intercession-of-st-gemma.html


#9

[quote="SlimNm, post:1, topic:310719"]
Please clarify this quote for me, and please provide sources! Someone told me that it's saying a woman will crush the devil, but I say it's saying her SON will do that. Thanks!

[/quote]

**
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and they seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." (Gen. 3:15, DRB)**

I believe that it is the Woman (Our Lady) who will by the Power of God and the Merits of Jesus Christ crush the head of satan. This is probably referring to the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

And it is fitting, ... satan took down Eve first in the beginning, ... so now at the end it makes sense that the New Sinless and Immaculate Eve (Mary) will take down satan.

Let us pray that the 5th Marian Dogma is Solemnly Defined and Proclaimed!

God bless you. :)


#10

catholicnewsagency.com/news/american-exorcist-in-training-shares-his-experience/
Here is a testimony of an actual priest exorcist when he is doing an exorcism.

"It is also possible to 'throw in things just to humiliate the demon,' such as invoking the presence of saints, guardian angels and – most feared of all – Our Lady. It is then that 'you can really see that there is a change in the behavior of the demon.'”

regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=14318&se=364&ca=118&te=782
Here is another priest exorcist giving testimony of Mary.

"At the end, the priest says to the demon, 'Go away! Disappear!' The demon usually answers, 'No, I don´t want to.' It rebels and revolts. Sometimes it says 'You have no power over me. You are nothing to me.' But after a while, its resistance weakens. This usually happens after the invocation of the Holy Mother, she´s very important for that. No demon ever dares to insult her during an exorcism. Never."

(Question)"Does he have more respect for Mary than for God himself? "

"Apparently. Otherwise no holds are barred, and everyone is insulted: the priests, everyone present, the bishops, the Pope, even Jesus Christ. But never the Virgin Mary. It´s an enigma."


#11

[quote="SaintPatrick333, post:4, topic:310719"]
The Miraculous Medal shows Mary crushing the head of the serpent but we all know that she does so by Christ's will. Whether it's Mary's foot or Christ's foot, it is Christ doing the crushing.That's all that matters. It's a proven fact though, that the devil fears Mary more than Jesus. :thumbsup:

[/quote]

This is incorrect as it elevates Mary above God himself. How can the devil fear the one(Mary) who cannot destroy him more than the one(God) who actually can and will? :tsktsk:

Mary in and of herself cannot do anything without God. Thus, when the devil trembles at the priest invoking Mary; it is more correct to say the devil fears her because GOD is working through her. So he does not fear Mary more than God but actually fears God more because he only fears Mary due to the presence of God that accompanies her.


#12

[quote="Wandile, post:11, topic:310719"]
This is incorrect as it elevates Mary above God himself. How can the devil fear the one(Mary) who cannot destroy him more than the one(God) who actually can and will? :tsktsk:
.

[/quote]

Yes...God is the only one who can truly defeat the devil...He can wish it anytime...but in God's ultimate wisdom...He has not done it...nor will He do it...because of the Satan's devilish pride...he can turn that defeat into victory...by claiming he was defeated by only someone more powerful than him......God.


#13

[quote="pablope, post:12, topic:310719"]
Yes...God is the only one who can truly defeat the devil...He can wish it anytime...but in God's ultimate wisdom...He has not done it...nor will He do it..

[/quote]

.

God will destroy Satan. Please note that when I say "destroy, I do not mean Satan is gonna go "poof". I mean he is gonna be judged and condemned to eternal torment in the "lake of fire" (book of revelation). That's is spiritual destruction. So YES God can and will destroy him.

[quote="pablope, post:12, topic:310719"]
because of the Satan's devilish pride...he can turn that defeat into victory...by claiming he was defeated by only someone more powerful than him......God.

[/quote]

No Satan is too prideful to even ever admit that God is more powerful/mightier than him. Remember Satan promised he would erect and ascend his throne above God's during the rebellion in heaven. Surely with pride such as this, he will never admit himself inferior to God.


#14

[quote="Wandile, post:11, topic:310719"]
This is incorrect as it elevates Mary above God himself. How can the devil fear the one(Mary) who cannot destroy him more than the one(God) who actually can and will? :tsktsk:

Mary in and of herself cannot do anything without God. Thus, when the devil trembles at the priest invoking Mary; it is more correct to say the devil fears her because GOD is working through her. So he does not fear Mary more than God but actually fears God more because he only fears Mary due to the presence of God that accompanies her.

[/quote]

That's yet one more statement that misunderstands true devotion to Mary.

Satan is proud, so he is not afraid of tempting, insulting, challenging and openly opposing Christ, to the point of eventually bringing forward another creature like himself which will be called Antichrist :shrug:

However, because of his very pride, he is afraid of doing those things to Our Lady - because if Christ smites him (and in due time defeats him forever) in his pride he can still boast that God did it, but if a creature, a poor young lady, smites that great archangel, that hurts him very much. And it is to Mary that God has reserved the privilege of stepping over and defeating the Serpent.

Of course, all true devotion to Mary is rooted on Christ, so in fact the devil fears God's power and authority - which He has exercised in giving Mary power over all demons - but there is no error in saying: "the Devil fears Mary more than Jesus", because this doesn't elevate Mary over God...it simply reflects the Devil's distorted way of seeing and doing things, and the fact that he's not, so to speak, a "God-fearing" creature :shrug:


#15

[quote="SlimNm, post:1, topic:310719"]
Please clarify this quote for me, and please provide sources! Someone told me that it's saying a woman will crush the devil, but I say it's saying her SON will do that. Thanks!

[/quote]

It can be both, as well in some sense the Church and St. Michael...
See How can Mary crush the serpent's head
;)


#16

[quote="R_C, post:14, topic:310719"]
That's yet one more statement that misunderstands true devotion to Mary.

Satan is proud, so he is not afraid of tempting, insulting, challenging and openly opposing Christ, to the point of eventually bringing forward another creature like himself which will be called Antichrist :shrug:

However, because of his very pride, he is afraid of doing those things to Our Lady - because if Christ smites him (and in due time defeats him forever) in his pride he can still boast that God did it, but if a creature, a poor young lady, smites that great archangel, that hurts him very much. And it is to Mary that God has reserved the privilege of stepping over and defeating the Serpent.

Of course, all true devotion to Mary is rooted on Christ, so in fact the devil fears God's power and authority - which He has exercised in giving Mary power over all demons - but there is no error in saying: "the Devil fears Mary more than Jesus", because this doesn't elevate Mary over God...it simply reflects the Devil's distorted way of seeing and doing things, and the fact that he's not, so to speak, a "God-fearing" creature :shrug:

[/quote]

I agree with most of what you said. Yet it is irresponsible and even somewhat heretical to claim Satan fears a creature of God over God himself. We all know Satan fears God, although he's a good pretends not to. He fears Mary only because of her communion with God.

The fact is this is not any official church teaching nor has it ever been pronounced ever in the writings of the early church nor is it compatible with the apostolic teaching that has been handed down to us. Now, its one thing to say the devil fears Mary the most out of all created beings ,but to say he fears her even more than the creator? No no no ...

You touch on Mary'as dominion over all demons but yet she only gets that dominion from God who I'm sure has even more dominion than we can fathom and shares some of this with Mary. So again the true source of fear is God and thus he fears God more.

This idea of saying Satan will console himself by saying he got defeated by God Is also erroneous. It ignores that fact that Satan hates all that is God and can't stand defeat from God. So in his prideful nature, he would not even find consolation in being defeated by God. This is because defeat by his arch enemy is the ultimate humiliation which (in God's words) "the proud are humbled".


#17

Well, I'm nobody to give nihil obstats :D It may be as you say...I was just giving my impression...and my impression is that this does not say that Satan fears a creature more than God, because any honor tributed to Mary or any fear inspired by Mary springs forth from Christ and goes back to Christ :shrug: In and of herself, she is a humble creature that Satan can crush in a split second. It is God who gave her such an extraordinary authority as to not make Satan stop challenging and insulting God, but as to make Satan be terribly afraid of challenging and insulting Mary :shrug:

I am not so adamant (perhaps due to my great ignorance) about the fact that this has never been mentioned by the Church or in the writings of any saint...anyways what I am concerned with is not with this statement, but with the idea that somehow we need to lower the honor given to Our Lady in order not to offend God or Christ. That's simply not right.

It's obvious that no creature in him or herself can scare a fallen angel, but only God, and yet it's obvious in terms of tradition that God has given a very specific authority and a very specific power to Our Lady against Satan and his legions...what I mean is that if the King tasks a Knight to be the one to defeat me and this Knight moves towards me with an unbeatable army, then I know and fear the King, but I am more terrified by the Knight, whom I could not care less if it weren't because the King picked him among all of his servants specifically to beat me... I may insult the King (whose will is that I be defeated anyways) but if I see the Knight I'll try to be nice in an attempt not to make him strike before time.

In short: no doubt Christ is the defeater of Satan, and no doubt God is the origin of Mary's authority, but that doesn't stop the devil from cursing at will at Christ and being rather polite when addressing Our Lady :shrug: It's what I'd call "empirical evidence"...we aren't quite able to word it properly, but we see it happen.

Then again, all of this is way over our heads (at least, mine). It's supernatural spiritual combat. At least I feel I should not really focus on who does Satan fear more, because his fear or acts do not bring greater or lesser glory to God - how he feels and what he does neither increases nor lessens God's glory.

I focus on God, and on the great things He has done for Our Lady. And if someone says that something shows great honor towards her, I don't try to decrease this honor, but I praise it, because ultimately Her actions do bring greater glory to God, and the more she is honored, the more God is being glorified in His beloved Blessed Virgin.


#18

[quote="R_C, post:17, topic:310719"]
Well, I'm nobody to give nihil obstats :D It may be as you say...I was just giving my impression...and my impression is that this does not say that Satan fears a creature more than God, because any honor tributed to Mary or any fear inspired by Mary springs forth from Christ and goes back to Christ :shrug: In and of herself, she is a humble creature that Satan can crush in a split second. It is God who gave her such an extraordinary authority as to not make Satan stop challenging and insulting God, but as to make Satan be terribly afraid of challenging and insulting Mary :shrug:

I am not so adamant (perhaps due to my great ignorance) about the fact that this has never been mentioned by the Church or in the writings of any saint...anyways what I am concerned with is not with this statement, but with the idea that somehow we need to lower the honor given to Our Lady in order not to offend God or Christ. That's simply not right.

It's obvious that no creature in him or herself can scare a fallen angel, but only God, and yet it's obvious in terms of tradition that God has given a very specific authority and a very specific power to Our Lady against Satan and his legions...what I mean is that if the King tasks a Knight to be the one to defeat me and this Knight moves towards me with an unbeatable army, then I know and fear the King, but I am more terrified by the Knight, whom I could not care less if it weren't because the King picked him among all of his servants specifically to beat me... I may insult the King (whose will is that I be defeated anyways) but if I see the Knight I'll try to be nice in an attempt not to make him strike before time.

In short: no doubt Christ is the defeater of Satan, and no doubt God is the origin of Mary's authority, but that doesn't stop the devil from cursing at will at Christ and being rather polite when addressing Our Lady :shrug: It's what I'd call "empirical evidence"...we aren't quite able to word it properly, but we see it happen.

Then again, all of this is way over our heads (at least, mine). It's supernatural spiritual combat. At least I feel I should not really focus on who does Satan fear more, because his fear or acts do not bring greater or lesser glory to God - how he feels and what he does neither increases nor lessens God's glory.

I focus on God, and on the great things He has done for Our Lady. And if someone says that something shows great honor towards her, I don't try to decrease this honor, but I praise it, because ultimately Her actions do bring greater glory to God, and the more she is honored, the more God is being glorified in His beloved Blessed Virgin.

[/quote]

I her what you're saying.

I've got an excerpt from cantuar.blogspot.com/2008/08/demons-unable-to-curse-blessed-virgin.html?m=1 about a book of Rome's chief exorcist.

Interesting fact: According Fr. Amorth and
other exorcists, demons are not allowed to
blaspheme the Blessed Virgin Mary. They
curse the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and
also the saints. But they never curse Mary
and shrink back from doing so. The
hypothesis is that Christ prevents the
demons from doing this or that it has
something to do with the prophecy in Gen
3:15
about enmity between Satan and "the
Woman" who bore the Christ Child.

The fact is that Mary is not blasphemed on Chrits's authority. If the really feared her more than they do Christ, they wouldn't stop blaspheming Mary because of Jesys but instead would not blaspheme her because of Mary herself. Thus you CANNOT say demons fear Mary more than God, period. It makes no sense :shrugs:


#19

[quote="Wandile, post:18, topic:310719"]
The fact is that Mary is not blasphemed on Chrits's authority. If the really feared her more than they do Christ, they wouldn't stop blaspheming Mary because of Jesys but instead would not blaspheme her because of Mary herself. Thus you CANNOT say demons fear Mary more than God, period. It makes no sense :shrugs:

[/quote]

(1)

Regardless of where the fear comes from, he is afraid "of blaspheming Our Lady". Of course, this fear ultimately goes back to God's authority over him. But he's not afraid of blaspheming Christ. So while demons clearly fear God period, not "more than" or "less than" any creature, we can say without error (though it's just one way to put it) that we have the impression that Satan is more afraid of Our Lady than of Christ, at least during exorcisms, and at least concerning the way he addresses them. And we can't extend this beyond the limited scope of the data we have, since we don't know what goes on beyond that rite...it's possible that regularly he does insult her and we don't know it...we have no way to know it, period. We also know that in context the demons (and scarcely ever Satan himself is addressed) are driven away by the authority of Christ and of the Church, that is, they are not exorcised in the name or by the power of Mary. That should clarify things even further.

(2)

Does this behavior of Satan constitute any indication whatsoever of anyone being greater or lesser than God? Does it matter at all if he fears her more? For instance, there are things I, as a creature, I am afraid of, even though in themselves are no cause for fear. Ex. I may be afraid of a power plug, even though I actually fear electricity. I may be afraid of a certain mosquito, even though I actually fear some grave illness. I may fear death even though I actually fear leaving my loved ones alone. I may be afraid of something I see, even though I am afraid of what I don't see. I may be afraid of temptations, even though I actually fear offending God. In short, my fear is no meter, no scale. Neither is his. And all it's fine as long as I keep aware that only God is, and that all creatures - yes, all creatures - are nothing before God. And nobody who is particularly devout to Mary with true devotion has forgotten that - in fact, that's why we greatly rejoice...because in her lowliness she was greatly exalted by God, and that's a great mystery and indeed reason for joy and hope.


#20

[quote="R_C, post:19, topic:310719"]

(1)
Regardless of where the fear comes from, he is afraid "of blaspheming Our Lady". Of course, this fear ultimately goes back to God's authority over him. But he's not afraid of blaspheming Christ. So while demons clearly fear God *period, not "more than" or "less than" any creature, we can say without error (though it's just one way to put it) that we have the impression that Satan is **more afraid of Our Lady than of Christ*, at least during exorcisms, and at least concerning the way he addresses them. And we can't extend this beyond the limited scope of the data we have, since we don't know what goes on beyond that rite...it's possible that regularly he does insult her and we don't know it...we have no way to know it, period. We also know that in context the demons (and scarcely ever Satan himself is addressed) are driven away by the authority of Christ and of the Church, that is, they are not exorcised in the name or by the power of Mary. That should clarify things even further.

First I don't think the fact that the devil doesn't blaspheme Mary stems from the fear of her. Rather it stems from the fear of the one who has authority over all thing. The same one who bared the devil from being allowed to blaspheme her. Secondly I don't think you understand what the theological implications of "Satan fears Mary more than Jesus" are. I it should be blatant to you No being is feared more than God by the demons. Sure they blaspheme him, because he permits this and not because they aren't scared of him. So again demons fear God the most for He in and of himself has the true judicial authority to over them. He is the barer of their doom... so to speak.M

[/quote]

[quote="R_C, post:19, topic:310719"]

(2)

Does this behavior of Satan constitute any indication whatsoever of anyone being greater or lesser than God? Does it matter at all if he fears her more? For instance, there are things I, as a creature, I am afraid of, even though in themselves are no cause for fear. Ex. I may be afraid of a power plug, even though I actually fear electricity. I may be afraid of a certain mosquito, even though I actually fear some grave illness. I may fear death even though I actually fear leaving my loved ones alone. I may be afraid of something I see, even though I am afraid of what I don't see. I may be afraid of temptations, even though I actually fear offending God. In short, my fear is no meter, no scale. Neither is his. And all it's fine as long as I keep aware that only God is, and that all creatures - yes, all creatures - are nothing before God. And nobody who is particularly devout to Mary with true devotion has forgotten that - in fact, that's why we greatly rejoice...because in her lowliness she was greatly exalted by God, and that's a great mystery and indeed reason for joy and hope.

[/quote]

Yes it does theologically. The fact is you ignore that Satan has knowledge of the divine and created to an extent we cannot fathom. He thus know enough about God and Mary to know who he fears more. Trust me on that. Now this is not a competition betweene God and Mary and I'm not trying to take anything away from the blessed Mother. However we need to know where to draw the line about what is theologically correct and what is not. Saying Mary is feared more by the demons is incorrect on ALL grounds no matter how twist it. Its simple as that. It elevates her to a position above God that is not truly hers. For unlike us , as I said, demons have met God and know his wrath of justice and know for sure that he unparalleled. :tsktsk:


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