Your view on other religions


#1

My World Religions teacher said last Friday that all the religions and belief systems of the world are like many rivers leading to the same body of water. Of course, this “body of water” is God. However, I don´t share his view.

I just can´t seem to comprehend why God would have Christ create a Church (somewhat based on Judaism) and not want to have everyone be a part of it.

Now, I see Ecumenicalism (sorry if I´m botching the spelling up) in two ways: one way is that it means that all religions turn Catholic; the other is that of tolerance between each and every religion.

My person view is that if we were discussing Ecumenicalism, we should be discussing the possibility that all religious sects join the Catholic Church. If Ecumenicalism should mean that we must tolerate each other, I would have to disagree with it.

Also, notice that Christ was the founder of Catholicism, but every other religion was founded by a HUMAN. Martin Luther for Protestantism (although many, many other people broke away before him), Muhammed for Islam, Sidhartha Gautauma for Buddhism, etc. Why then, should we be able to join religions that were created by FALLIBLE HUMANS rather than join the religion that was created by the PERFECT CHRIST?

Now, don´t get me wrong. I love my brothers and sisters of this world, but I cannot–I refuse to–accept or agree with their beliefs, doctrines, and dogmas, especially those which the Church has denounced.


#2

[quote=AsStAnselmPrays]My World Religions teacher said last Friday that all the religions and belief systems of the world are like many rivers leading to the same body of water. Of course, this “body of water” is God. However, I don´t share his view.
[/quote]

I like Dr. Kreeft’s analogy for other religions. His has a mountain with various paths to the top. They are all alike in every fashion except one. All but one path were made going up the mountain, while one path was made from the top down.


#3

**Tolerance does not mean accepting another belief or simply saying “it’s okay, we equally go to the same place.” Tolerance simply means that you respect the people believing in it. It is wrong to be prejudice against people of other faiths. You know the saying “Love the sinner, hate the sin.” **

Ecumenism doesn’t mean that all other religions will turn Catholic. It’s just dialogue with other faiths and work together on things we agree on. It is also to try to convert others.


#4

[quote=Aureole]I like Dr. Kreeft’s analogy for other religions. His has a mountain with various paths to the top. They are all alike in every fashion except one. All but one path were made going up the mountain, while one path was made from the top down.
[/quote]

**None of these analogies work, lol. Then what do you say about a climber that knows about the shortest path, but instead takes the longer path and makes fun of the climbers on the short path? He gets eaten by mountain lions at the end? lol. :hmmm: **


#5

All religions contain some truth. Catholicism is Truth.


#6

[quote=Roman_Army]**Tolerance does not mean accepting another belief or simply saying “it’s okay, we equally go to the same place.” Tolerance simply means that you respect the people believing in it. It is wrong to be prejudice against people of other faiths. You know the saying “Love the sinner, hate the sin.” **
[/quote]

Yes, I know of the saying “love the sinner, hate the sin.” I do love all those people, don’t get me wrong, and I do hate the sin. However, why should we just “tolerate” their religions? It isn’t our fault that they chose not to become Catholic (with rare exceptions, few and far between). Once we start tolerating things, we come to eventually accept them, and that is something we cannot do.


#7

[quote=cardenio]All religions contain some truth. Catholicism is Truth.
[/quote]

You are right, Catholicism IS Truth. Why? Because it was founded by Christ, GOD, on the Rock that is Peter, our first Pope.


#8

Hi AsStA–,

The doctrine and practice of the Church as concerns ecumenism (It’s in the dictionary) is stated in the document of the Second Sacred Council of Vatican II. It is called Unitatis redintegratio and can be found at rc.net/rcchurch/vatican2/unitatis.red .

Here is some of its content:

. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly condemned. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. (…) it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(…)

  1. Today, in many parts of the world, under the inspiring grace of the Holy Spirit, many efforts are being made in prayer, word and action to attain that fullness of unity which Jesus Christ desires. The Sacred Council exhorts all the Catholic faithful to recognize the signs of the times and to take an active and intelligent part in the work of ecumenism. The term “ecumenical movement” indicates the initiatives and activities planned and undertaken, according to the various needs of the Church and as opportunities offer, to promote Christian unity. These are: first, every effort to avoid expressions, judgments and actions which do not represent the condition of our separated brethren with truth and fairness and so make mutual relations with them more difficult; then, “dialogue” between competent experts from different Churches and Communities. At these meetings, which are organized in a religious spirit, each explains the teaching of his Communion in greater depth and brings out clearly its distinctive features. (…)

. This change of heart and holiness of life, along with public and private prayer for the unity of Christians, should be regarded as the soul of the whole ecumenical movement, and merits the name, “spiritual ecumenism.” It is a recognized custom for Catholics to have frequent recourse to that prayer for the unity of the Church which the Savior Himself on the eve of His death so fervently appealed to His Father: “That they may all be one”.[32] In certain special circumstances, such as the prescribed prayers “for unity,” and during ecumenical gatherings, it is allowable, indeed desirable that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. (…) Yet worship in common (communicatio in sacris) is not to be considered as a means to be used indiscriminately for the restoration of Christian unity. (…)The course to be adopted, with due regard to all the circumstances of time, place, and persons, is to be decided by local episcopal authority, unless otherwise provided for by the Bishops’ Conference according to its statutes, or by the Holy See.

I invite you to study this document closely.

Verbum


#9

[quote=Roman_Army]**None of these analogies work, lol. Then what do you say about a climber that knows about the shortest path, but instead takes the longer path and makes fun of the climbers on the short path? He gets eaten by mountain lions at the end? lol. :hmmm: **
[/quote]

Well, they’re only analogies. Besides, I wouldn’t doubt it if I got it mixed up somehow, I’ll bet Dr. Kreeft could explain it much more eloquently than I.


#10

Now, your teacher is right. You have the Christianity current going one way with Child sacrifice is bad, Then you have the Mayen (I think) Current going the other way with Child sacrifice is good and is creates wirlpool and sucks your teacher up. :rotfl:
No seriously. It is more like a road map. All roads and highways take you somewhere, just not the same place.


#11

[quote=AsStAnselmPrays]My World Religions teacher said last Friday that all the religions and belief systems of the world are like many rivers leading to the same body of water. Of course, this “body of water” is God. However, I don´t share his view.

[/quote]

So your teacher believes that Satan worshipers and suicide cults are “all” leading to God? Obviously understanding world religions is not your instructors objective. He is trying to lead people away from God by implying that “all” religions are good and working for the same end. I THINK NOT!

You are very right in not buying into this instuctors deception. Have you quit the class?


#12

I HATE the all roads up the mountain analogy. I disagree with it totally. I like previous poster’s road map analogy, much more realistic.

No way do all religions take you to the same place. I think it is insulting to sugest that they do, and the people who suggest this are usually trying to be inclusive, but in the end, just insult all parties involved.

By their fruits you may know them…lots of religions are nonsense and hogwash.

cheddar


#13

[quote=AsStAnselmPrays]My World Religions teacher said last Friday that all the religions and belief systems of the world are like many rivers leading to the same body of water. Of course, this “body of water” is God.

My person view is that if we were discussing Ecumenicalism, we should be discussing the possibility that all religious sects join the Catholic Church. If Ecumenicalism should mean that we must tolerate each other, I would have to disagree with it.

[/quote]

:frowning: My religion teacher said the same thing a two years back. I was arguing with a classmate about Christianity being the true religon and we decided to ‘ask the teacher’. Imagine my shock when she cooly stated “All religions are the same, all that matters is that you love God and love your neighbour just like Jesus said” :banghead:

Anyway, this Barth quote says what I feel:
Christianity is the one true religion because God decided so, because the light of Christ falls on it… no matter how good and true any other religion may seem it is false, useless-because the light of Christ has not fallen on it

:amen:


#14

Where to begin with this?
AsStAnselmPrays I find the fact that you are such a zealot disturbing. But you do share a tone with many posters on this thread. That tone is one of exclusivity. It is like saying that if everyone is equal, you lose. By definition everyone is equal so this stance makes little sense, especially coming from one who proffesses love and charity towards his fellow man (christians do still believe in that right?). Why is it so hard to imagine that God in his wisdom has devised different religions and each is true for it’s followers? Surely God didn’t exclude the rest of the world while he was laying down his laws. This is just the tradition you are used to, but had you been born in India you might be a buddhist or hindu right now…and what would that mean? It would mean feeding the poor and clothing the sick and treating everyone as a brother…hmmm sounds like what you were suppossed to be doing anyway :slight_smile:

Steven:

So your teacher believes that Satan worshipers and suicide cults are “all” leading to God? Obviously understanding world religions is not your instructors objective. He is trying to lead people away from God by implying that “all” religions are good and working for the same end. I THINK NOT!

Well actually, cults aren’t religions by deffinition. And if by “Satan worshipers” you mean the church of satan the only recognized satanic religion, you should note that they not only do not believe in Satan, but do adhere to a (admittedly askew) moral code. Their main claim to “Satan” is that their rituals center around commiting the 7 deadly sins, the name is a satyr. So if the seven deadly sins keep you out, these guys are out. But eventhough it is an atheistic religion, theoretically wouldn’t they want to go to hell if their religion was correct? As for your statement that the teacher was trying to lead people away from God, it seems like what really leads people away from God, is all this petty squabbling. The definition I recieved for God on this forum was, God is love and truth and infinite compassion. Through your religion you claim to aspire to his example, but the behavior you exhibit is quite the contrary. Did Jesus not help even the pagans that came to him for help?

Now, your teacher is right. You have the Christianity current going one way with Child sacrifice is bad, Then you have the Mayen (I think) Current going the other way with Child sacrifice is good and is creates wirlpool and sucks your teacher up.

Well the Mayans weren’t big on child sacrifice, that was Abraham and Isaac you were thinking of. The Mayans did do (adult) human sacrifice (the candidates were chosen several ways) but it was on the recommendation of their god. Maybe it was to test your faith right now :wink:


#15

I believe that all of the religions (Christian) of the world lead to the Catholic Faith and then to God.


#16

Some points I heard form John Paul II that I have always taken to heart, and try to live by:

  1. We are not to judge - only God is.
  2. It is imperative that people are treated with dignity, and an essential part of that dignity is the freedom to choose - even if they “choose wrong” in my opinion.
  3. The major religions (Judaism, Catholilcism, Islamic) all worship Abraham’s God.
  4. The bigger imperative is that the world doesn’t understand where it came from, or why it’s here, so it suffers in sin (culture of death, terrorism, violation of humans rights and dignities). We should all focus on that, as all these religions claim that those are important sins to correct.
  5. There are things we don’t completely understand about the world’s religions, and one day God will share the answers with us.

He actually said all of these. I think they are 5 great points. The apolgetic debates on this forum, for the sake of debate, really are in violation of these points. People have a right to choose, if they are searching for answers we help. But saying I am right and you are wrong is judgmental. (That doesn’t mean I do not believe my religion is the truth, it just respects your right to make the same claim, and judging you is a grave sin).

More focus on these points, and less on the differences between religions, would make the world a better place.


#17

[quote=AsStAnselmPrays] I just can´t seem to comprehend why God would have Christ create a Church (somewhat based on Judaism) and not want to have everyone be a part of it.
[/quote]

Jesus certainly prayed that all might be one. Obviously God wants everyone to be in the Church founded by the Son. But people are free and God does not coece them. He invites them.

[quote=AsStAnselmPrays]If Ecumenicalism should mean that we must tolerate each other, I would have to disagree with it.
[/quote]

Well I am afraid that it does. Toleration does not mean not defending ones Faith, nor does it mean accepting the others as your own, or even saying one faith is as good as any other. It is kind of agreeing to disagree on some things and agreeing where it is possible. The days of monarchs, decreed intolerance, and burning each other at the stake are long gone.

[quote=AsStAnselmPrays] Why then, should we be able to join religions that were created by FALLIBLE HUMANS rather than join the religion that was created by the PERFECT CHRIST?
[/quote]

Because we have freedon of conscience and even Jesus never forced anyone to follow him.

[quote=AsStAnselmPrays]Now, don´t get me wrong. I love my brothers and sisters of this world, but I cannot–I refuse to–accept or agree with their beliefs, doctrines, and dogmas, especially those which the Church has denounced.
[/quote]

So whos asking you to accept or agree to? You are only asked to tolerate anothers belief and work to correct beliefs that are evil like abortion and capital punishment.

AsStAnselmPrays, I spent 22 years going to classes and as you have found out some Profs or Teachers are, to put it kindly, full of beans. Keep questioning what anyone tries to teach you.


#18

[quote=Wormwood] The definition I recieved for God on this forum was, God is love and truth and infinite compassion. Through your religion you claim to aspire to his example, but the behavior you exhibit is quite the contrary.

[/quote]

Hello Wormwood,

Jesus, my leader, loves and is compassionate more than any other person on earth. One of the ways Jesus loves people is by warning them not to take the path that leads to damnation. I, a follower of Jesus’ example, repeat His message. The problem is that the modernists have destroyed the biblical definition of love, which means to obey God’s commandments, and replaced it with the deceptive lie that love equals all people going to heaven.

NIV 1JO 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.NIV JOH 14:15

"If you love me, you will obey what I command."
NAB ROM 13 Love Fulfills the Law.

Owe no debt to anyone except the debt that binds us to love one another. **He who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not murder; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and any other commandment there may be are all summed up in this, saying (namely) “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love never wrongs the neighbor, hence love is the fulfillment of the law.**NAB MAT 7:13

How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

NAB MAT 19:16

“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, "Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’; ‘You shall not steal’; ‘You shall not bear false witness’; ‘Honor your father and mother’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’"
NAB MAT 25:41

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

NAB REV 2:22

“I mean to cast her down on a bed of pain; her companions in sin I will plunge into intense suffering unless they repent of their sins with her, and her children I will put to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds, and that I will give each of you what your conduct deserves.”


#19

[quote=AsStAnselmPrays]Yes, I know of the saying “love the sinner, hate the sin.” I do love all those people, don’t get me wrong, and I do hate the sin. However, why should we just “tolerate” their religions? It isn’t our fault that they chose not to become Catholic (with rare exceptions, few and far between). Once we start tolerating things, we come to eventually accept them, and that is something we cannot do.
[/quote]

So, if we’re not to tolerate them, i.e., allow people to believe in them, what shall we do? Start a militia and force people to convert or die? I don’t see that working out too well. We’re saved by God’s grace, not by man’s coercion.


#20

UPDATE: Today in class, my teacher showed us a quick song on his class website. It was all about our God being another person’s God and so on and so forth. Why? Why does he believe this? If we believed in the same God, why shouldn’t we just all start worshiping in everyone else’s churches? We all believe in the same thing, right? So why not completely demolish the walls seperating the religions and denominations?

Why not? Right? WRONG. We believe in different Gods. And for those who believe in Jehovah, they follow practices other than what He told us to do, therefore, not truly following God.


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