Youth Day Liturgy 2012 in Los Angeles


#1

I hope we could all agree that what was happening in this liturgy was irreverent: the rapping as an entrance hymn, the dancers, the clapping during hymns, etc. And this is just what I've seen from the first 15 minutes.

youtube.com/watch?v=Vpt9XXYHd18&feature=BFa&list=PLEB39E335EB89D545&lf=plcp&index=3

My question is, what could people do about something like this. It's not really a parish where we could raise our concerns to a priest about what is going on, but the Mass is irreverent and we should demand better. The only problem is, how do we do it, and to whom?


#2

Since it is over for a year there is nothing to be done unless you want to join whatever congress group is responsible for planning next year’s liturgy. Remember that youth Day masses like this have been going on for at least 3 Archbishops/Cardinals and change comes slowly. You could direct your thoughts to the new Archbishop who I believe was the presider.


#3

The same liturgy that formed the great Saints of the Church again. ;) Let me know when this display of liberal Protestantism ceases being the face of Catholicism during the Religious Education Congress.


#4

:rolleyes:
It’s LA, what do you expect?


#5

Yep. More embarrassment. :blush:

It seemed like the very worst speakers were disappearing, like the "married", lesbian, Episcopalian "priest". And then Abp Gomez moved in. I had high hopes he would clean up the dissentfest. :(

As an aside, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles organizes the REC, but it was actually in Orange County.

It really makes no sense at all. Both Cardinal Mahony and Archbishop Gomez put up with no nonsense at the Cathedral, why this still happens - and so* publicly* - at the REC is beyond me. I could see some youth Mass at some small nondescript suburban parish slipping under the radar, but not this.


#6

[quote="Richard320, post:5, topic:278553"]
Yep. More embarrassment. :blush:

It seemed like the very worst speakers were disappearing, like the "married", lesbian, Episcopalian "priest". And then Abp Gomez moved in. I had high hopes he would clean up the dissentfest. :(

As an aside, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles organizes the REC, but it was actually in Orange County.

[/quote]

Yeah, but I thought it best not to confuse people. It's essentially a greater Los Angeles program.

It really makes no sense at all. Both Cardinal Mahony and Archbishop Gomez put up with no nonsense at the Cathedral, why this still happens - and so* publicly* - at the REC is beyond me. I could see some youth Mass at some small nondescript suburban parish slipping under the radar, but not this.

I don't know how it is now with Archbishop Gomez at the cathedral, but I went to a Mass once that Cardinal Mahony celebrated. It had the same kind of choir, liturgical dancers, and little "testimonies" (this phrase seems so Protestant to me) given by teenagers. Maybe that was a one-time thing; you would know better than I do.

I just want to say that not all of LA is like this! It's just, unfortunately, far too many parishes around here that have so many innovations and illicit practices.


#7

I think it's a wonderful thing when liturgy becomes exciting for young people. I don't know where you live but I'm not seeing many young adults on Sunday. This RE congress happens once a year and these practices are the exception,not the norm. A normal parish couldn't do this every week,nor should they. So why get so upset and critical? These young people are worshipping in a way that might not be pleasing to you but why shouldn't it be pleasing to God? And by the way...some of it is a cultural thing. The liturgical documents allow for inculturation at times. Have you ever watched papal masses when he travels?


#8

[quote="Anna_Claire, post:7, topic:278553"]
I think it's a wonderful thing when liturgy becomes exciting for young people. I don't know where you live but I'm not seeing many young adults on Sunday. This RE congress happens once a year and these practices are the exception,not the norm. A normal parish couldn't do this every week,nor should they. So why get so upset and critical? These young people are worshipping in a way that might not be pleasing to you but why shouldn't it be pleasing to God? And by the way...some of it is a cultural thing. The liturgical documents allow for inculturation at times. Have you ever watched papal masses when he travels?

[/quote]

Why get upset and critical? Because a lot of what happened was irreverent. Did you see those altar cloths? Did you see people dressed in their Saturday afternoon best? Did you see the pop songs and rapping that were used as hymns? Did you see the dancers (Pope Benedict is vehemently against liturgical dancing)? Are you fine with clapping for people during the Mass?

There is a reason we get upset. If this all happened outside of the context of a Mass, then sure, it's fine. However, at Mass we are trying to recreate Calvary and recall and offer the sacrifice of Jesus. Do these things seem proper when we are so obviously in His presence and remembering His death?


#9

[quote="smndtupidisaftr, post:8, topic:278553"]
Why get upset and critical? Because a lot of what happened was irreverent. Did you see those altar cloths? Did you see people dressed in their Saturday afternoon best? Did you see the pop songs and rapping that were used as hymns? Did you see the dancers (Pope Benedict is vehemently against liturgical dancing)? Are you fine with clapping for people during the Mass?

There is a reason we get upset. If this all happened outside of the context of a Mass, then sure, it's fine. However, at Mass we are trying to recreate Calvary and recall and offer the sacrifice of Jesus. Do these things seem proper when we are so obviously in His presence and remembering His death?

[/quote]

First of all, it's not all to my liking nor is it my preference. I'm not a fan of mega masses. To me the huge papal mega masses are not at all conducive to a reverent atmosphere. There is just as much going on with people doing their own thing. It's allowed by local bishops and so are the mega papal masses. Again, it is not the norm but an exception. You are entitled to your opinion and so are others. Everyone doesn't have to agree on occasions such as this.
Also, (and this should be for another thread) we are not trying to "recreate Calvary" at mass. We are worshipping God the Father with the risen Chrst in our midst. We are celebrating, not only Christ's death but his Resurrection and that he will come again in glory.... The Paschal Mystery.


#10

Ugh.

Those youth will probably one day grow up to be the "Catholics" who dissent from just about everything the Church teaches. Seems like a bunch of kids up there showboating, a bunch of goofy-looking adults dancing like they're playing the Wii (Ha! New game - liturgical dancing for the Wii!), and drums that make it sound like a pagan ritual... I was half expecting to see some Aztecs come out with their obsidian knives ready to cut out a few hearts.


#11

I have attended Mass several times at Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral in Los Angeles when both Gomez and Mahony were the celebrants. All the Masses have been very reverent and by the book. Certainly far more orthodox than anything here locally. The setting is also very conducive to prayer and the celebration of the Mass.

I strongly suspect that those who bash the cathedral and Gomez are the very people that have experienced neither in real life.


#12

[quote="Jegudiel, post:11, topic:278553"]
I have attended Mass several times at Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral in Los Angeles when both Gomez and Mahony were the celebrants. All the Masses have been very reverent and by the book. Certainly far more orthodox than anything here locally. The setting is also very conducive to prayer and the celebration of the Mass.

I strongly suspect that those who bash the cathedral and Gomez are the very people that have experienced neither in real life.

[/quote]

I've been to the cathedral and I'm not a fan. I still haven't attended a Mass celebrated by Archbishop Gomez, but I sure didn't like what I saw at this youth Mass.

The way the youth are treated in this archdiocese seems very condescending to me. I wasn't really attracted to it a few years ago when I still was a part of that "youth" group, and now it seems even worse. Why can't we treat the youth like adults? Why must they be babied? When I was a teenager I just wanted a Mass, I did not need all of this hoopla. It was never conducive to my prayer or the sacrament.


#13

[quote="smndtupidisaftr, post:12, topic:278553"]
The way the youth are treated in this archdiocese seems very condescending to me.

[/quote]

I agree. It's like talking like a black person to a black person because you want to "meet them where they're at" or be "relevant" ... when you both know you talk like a white person.


#14

[quote="The_Curt_Jester, post:10, topic:278553"]
I was half expecting to see some Aztecs come out with their obsidian knives ready to cut out a few hearts.

[/quote]

I think they do something like that in eastern rites (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamb_%28liturgy%29#Liturgy_of_Preparation).


#15

Uncharitable remarks above


#16

Ha!

Was looking for some financial records and just came across and old program for the 1974 Youth Day.

Principal Celebrant: Timothy Cardinal Manning

Entrance Song: Come In Pilgrim (Gary Ault of the Dameans)

Responsorial Psalm: Spirit of the Lord (Jim Strathdee)

Offertory: All Our Joy (Darryl Ducote of the Dameans)

Communion: Look Beyond the Bread You Eat (Darryl Ducote of the Dameans)
[INDENT] We Are the Light of the World (Jean Anthony Greif)
[/INDENT]
Communion Meditation: Amazing Grace

Recessional: Tell the World (Gary Ault of the Dameans)


#17

[quote="Anna_Claire, post:9, topic:278553"]
First of all, it's not all to my liking nor is it my preference. I'm not a fan of mega masses. To me the huge papal mega masses are not at all conducive to a reverent atmosphere. There is just as much going on with people doing their own thing. It's allowed by local bishops and so are the mega papal masses. Again, it is not the norm but an exception. You are entitled to your opinion and so are others. Everyone doesn't have to agree on occasions such as this.
Also, (and this should be for another thread) we are not trying to "recreate Calvary" at mass. We are worshipping God the Father with the risen Chrst in our midst. We are celebrating, not only Christ's death but his Resurrection and that he will come again in glory.... The Paschal Mystery.

[/quote]

I'll quote what I just randomly found today on ChantCafe but is completely applicable here:

Martin Luther defined the Mass as a sacrifice of praise. It is something we render to God. The Council of Trent solemnly defined against Luther that the Mass is a true sacrifice. The Mass is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Christ to His Father on Calvary in the Holy Spirit. The Mass is something that Jesus does, the Redemption, the fruits of which are shared with us in the Sacrament of Holy Communion. Worship is not Praise, but Sacrifice and Sacrament. Worship is something that Jesus Christ brings about in us through His self-offering to the Father.

P&W music reduces the Mass to a sacrifice of praise that we offer to God. Even when P&W proponents assent to the teaching of the Church on the Mass, it is as an abstract truth of faith. In the concrete, our sacrifice of praise is grafted onto that Sacrifice of Redemption. It overlooks the fact that it is the Sacrifice of Redemption that is the highest Praise to the Trinity, and that our participation in it is not by what we do, but by who we are as baptized Christians in the life of grace.

chantcafe.com/p/praise-and-worship-music-is-praise-but.html


#18

Trent smndtupidisaftr ? Vatican II continued and expanded that Trent definition.
The mass is sacrifice but it's also a meal and more.
The bishops at the VII brought together these three mysteries in a multifaceted description of the Mass: “At the Last Supper, on the night when he was betrayed, our Savior instituted the eucharistic sacrifice of his body and blood. He did this in order to perpetuate the sacrifice of the Cross throughout the centuries until he should come again and in this way to entrust to his beloved Bride, the Church, a memorial of his death and resurrection: a sacrament of love, a sign of unity, a bond of charity, a paschal banquet ‘in which Christ is eaten, the heart is filled with grace, and a pledge of future glory is given to us” ” (Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, #42).


#19

[quote="smndtupidisaftr, post:12, topic:278553"]
I've been to the cathedral and I'm not a fan. I still haven't attended a Mass celebrated by Archbishop Gomez, but I sure didn't like what I saw at this youth Mass.

The way the youth are treated in this archdiocese seems very condescending to me. I wasn't really attracted to it a few years ago when I still was a part of that "youth" group, and now it seems even worse. Why can't we treat the youth like adults? Why must they be babied? When I was a teenager I just wanted a Mass, I did not need all of this hoopla. It was never conducive to my prayer or the sacrament.

[/quote]

I spoke about Masses at the COLA. I suspect I have been to possibly a dozen. From daily Masses to the Easter Vigil. All were extremely reverent and by the book. People in the pews always seem to be on their best behavior too.


#20

What is up with all this dislike and distaste for such an awesome event which we have to know as Youth Day?

I loved Youth Day, but thats just my opinion.

Maybe I feel this way because I am really not a fan of uptight, judgemental Catholics who are completely against the idea of Mass being fun. To me, these feelings stir up much more of an irreverence and distraction for our Church than a day where 14,000 come to experience Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, in a more intimate way, some for the first time (Oops, does that phrasing of Jesus sound too Evangelical or Protestant?).

Uptight Catholic response: "But it IS irreverant, its NOT Liturgy, can't you see that the youth should blahh blahh...and that they should be more blah blah...this is Liberal Protestantism...This is exactly why they....This is not a Mass, this not the way...blah blah..

My response: I urge you to listen to the words of a young person, I, we, actually really enjoy Youth Day. I am a youth, a proud Catholic-Christian who lives in Los Angeles in the year of our Lord 2012, and I've got some news for you folks, youth day enriches our faith and brings us closer to God. You see, we love the rallies that pump us up in preparation for some Catechesis. We enjoy the transition after them and before Mass via videos, music, in preparation for the Sacred Liturgy, we appreciate adults who meet us where we are, and we love to worship a God who we know is simply glad that we are rejoicing in His name, with or without drums. We love the fact that we can celebrate Mass anywhere, in our parish churches, the Cathedral and yes, a sports arena.

I pray for my fellow Catholics who worry so much about irreverence, that their eyes be open to seeing that one day they will grow old and alone into a church with no new generation filling the pews if we do not learn to love what is going on with our youth. We appreciate these type of catechetical events. We are not trying to change anything about our beautiful tradition, we are simply trying to make it our own faith. I thank God there are Catholic adults who work at the diocesan level who understand this and work hard to put such an experience on for us year after year, they work with us not against us. And I thank all the priests, and our new conservative Archbishop for partaking in this celebration.

Youth Day provides a renewal for me and my peers and inspires me to share the love of Christ with all, and it does provide an intimate (yes, even among 10,000 people) experience which every person both young and old can benefit from being a part of.

Next year, I invite all critics of Youth Day to actually attend and see firsthand what really goes on because watching a youtube video and commenting on how irreverent it is sounds a bit like taking something out of context and using it against a group, isnt that what fake Christian groups do when they misquote the Bible or take it out of context?

This post was not meant to offend anyone. It was solely meant to share the experience of one of the 14,000 people who went to Youth Day. I really do pray my fellow Catholics, those who make up the present and future of our Church, and peace to ALL of our Christian brothers and sisters.

Peace be with you.


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