Zechariah ch 4's Olive Trees


#1

Zech ch. 4
1And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, 2And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: 3And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. 4So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? 5Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. 7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone (h68; construction material, a building stone) thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it. 8Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. 10For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet (h68; unhewn stone – i.e. Ex. 20:25) in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

The Two Olive Trees
11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? [Why didn’t the angel respond the first time?] 13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14Then said he, These are the two anointed (h3323; fresh, shining, oil) ones (h1121; builder of the family name), that stand (h5975; endure, take a stand) by the Lord (h0113.adon; master) of the whole earth.

What are the Two Olive Trees? Any relation to Rev.11?

And what’s with all the references to 3.5 years/42 months/1,260 days?

Rev. ch. 11
2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. (approx 1,260 days or 3.5 years)

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, (approx 42 months or 3.5 years.)

6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy (as did Elijah the Tishbite; ref. Jam 5:17. Another span of 3.5 years, approx 42 months or 1,260 days.):

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet;

Rev. ch.12
6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (approx equivalent to 42 months or 3.5 years).


#2

62 views and no replys? Does anyone have an idea?


#3

[quote="E_Thrower_II, post:1, topic:339415"]

What are the Two Olive Trees? Any relation to Rev.11?

And what's with all the references to 3.5 years/42 months/1,260 days?
.

[/quote]

The 2 Olive Trees - One is Zorobabel - The Prince [head of the tribe of Judah at the time of the return from the Babylonian Captivity (During Cyrus 1st year)].
The Other is Christ - The High Priest

No relation to Rev 11 that I could find.

The references to the years/month/days is to indicate that all is under God's control regardless of how we look at it.


#4

It's all very symbolic, and couched in cultural norms which mean practically nothing to modern man.

However if we're going to talk about the "two witnesses", if they in fact are two beings who are going to presage the end-times in some way, then I think they're a couple of angels. For one thing, they'll have powers no man could be trusted with over his fellow human beings. But being angels, they'll just be doing a job.

Secondly they fight the devil almos hand to hand, so to speak, and men can't do that, but angelic beings can.

In that context then, the two olive trees in Zechariah's vision could well be the two Witnesses in Revelation. If so, then they'd simply be two angels in very close proximity to God's throne.

I suppose I went through a bit of a "two witnesses" deception when I was still a new Christian, in a Protestant church. But I wasn't the only one - the creationist outfit now headed by Ken Ham in Kentucky was nearly brought undone years ago by one of their leading lights who became convinced he was one of the "two witnesses".

I remember going to a Creation Science seminar not long after I became a Christian and hearing this particular bloke speak. But I also remember that there was something unpleasant about his features at the time, and there was a harsh undercurrent in his voice. He also gave me a rather long stare at one time.

I suspect the demonic deceiver had gotten a hold of him by that time. And not long afterwards I started copping the "two witnesses" stuff myself. But I at least had enough sense to go and get some advice and counselling about it. I still remember seeing one particular counsellor, who had a ministry with street kids. His comment was "You're about the sixth witness I've seen a month!"

So it was obviouisly a local demonic fad at the time to deceive new Christians who had self esteem problems that they were one of the "Two Witnesses". It might sound silly to better grounded Christians, and more so to Catholics whom I suspect cop less of this sort of stuff than Protestants, whose theology is all over the place, and who don't have the protection of the Eucharist. But it'r real enough. It's based on "sensations" eg. the victim reads the passage about the two witnesses, and suddenly this "tingle" starts up. If he's silly enough to keep going, the "sensations" become more convincing.

So your question rang a bell. If there is a connection to the Witnesses in Rev. 11, then I suspect they are two angels, supernatural beings, who have a very close positoin to God. If that's the case, they may be the one and the same as the two Olive Trees in Zechariah.

In the meantime, I don't intend to lose any sleep over it. If they do turn up with their literal plagues, droughts and floods, they'll be pretty obvious. They won't be on anybody's party list.


#5

The prophecies of the first eight chapters of Zechariah are all meant to promote the work of rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem and to encourage the returning exiles, especially their religious and civil leaders, Joshua, the Jewish high priest, and Zerubbabel, the Jewish prince. In the literal sense, the two olive trees in chapter 4 represent Joshua and Zerubbabel. In the spiritual sense, the two olive trees represent Jesus Christ. The two olive trees also represent the Catholic pope and bishops whom Jesus Christ has anointed via apostolic succession to lead his Church on earth in his name.

The following commentary on Revelation 11:4-14 is from The Catholic Biblical Association's 1942 book, A Commentary on the New Testament, page 668-669:

11, 4-14: The Two Witnesses. The symbolism of this section is in general sufficiently evident with the exception, perhaps, of the two witnesses. Some have thought them to be Elias [Elijah] and Henoch [Enoch]; others Elias [Elijah] and Moses; others Josue [Joshua] and Zorobabel [Zerubbabel]. They have many of the characteristics of all the great prophets of Israel. But from the allusion in 4 to Josue, son of Josedec, and Zorobabel, John seems to imply that the two witnesses are the representatives of the civil and religious power among the children of God. Cf. Zach. 3, 4. The two witnesses, then, represent the univerality of Christian preachers and teachers; their mission is to combat the enemies of Christ and of His Church. In this office they shall have considerable power; it will resemble the power of the ancient prophets. But one day the world-power will be great enough to put them to death at Jerusalem, which signifies the whole profane world. It is Sodom, for it is a place of immorality; it is Egypt, for the world is in bondage to sin; it is Jerusalem, for it is the apostate place where Christ is hated. But there shall be a resurrection and Christ shall triumph; after three days and a half, symbolically, Antichrist shall be chained.
As for the references to 42 months or 3.5 years, the above Commentary, on Revelation 11:1-3, page 668, says, "The number of months is symbolical of a limited time."


#6

Here’s a link to the commentary on Zechariah 4 in the Haydock:
haydock1859.tripod.com/id714.html


#7

Here is what the Douay-Rheims Bible of 1609 has in the footnotes

Most Hebrew doctors and some Christians expound this vision of the temple, and the old synagogue, but most others understand it literally of Christ and his Church. The candlesticks- **Metaphorically signifying Christ’s Church. **The lamps **of light Christ. **Seven lights- all the pastors of the Church. Two wolves- Enoch and Elijah from Apoc. 11, which vision was to be declared to Zorobabel, for his consolation that he might know that God would protect his Church. Two branches- The divine and human natures of Christ.


#8

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