Zeitgeist (the movie, etc.)


#1

This thing has been rearing its ugly head recently several times in the last few weeks, and what I’ve seen of this, I believe it’s a bunch of baloney.

With that said, how does the Church respond to such claims that this “jesus thing” has happened over and over again through the ages and zodiac signs represent the apostles and the sun is the Son, etc.?

Responses to such claims are appreciated.

Thank you.

JIMMY68
Happily an understanding Catholic…


#2

Here are a few sites that refute the ‘Zeitgeist’ movie:

Confronting the ‘Copycat’ Thesis

“Zeitgeist” movie Refuted


#3

The movie is a bunch of pseudo scholarly rubbish. You can find a nice refutation here:

preventingtruthdecay.org/zeitgeistpartone.shtml

but there are tons of critiques online.

Eric


#4

<< With that said, how does the Church respond to such claims that this “jesus thing” has happened over and over again through the ages and zodiac signs represent the apostles and the sun is the Son, etc.? >>

See my article All About Horus: An Egyptian Copy of Christ?

I spent a day at U.S.F. library, then spent a couple days compiling the best material on Horus, responding to Zeitgeist, and summarizing Ben Witherington’s blog post which covers some of the astrological material. His better points:

– it is partially true that cultures have always personified/anthropomorphized the sun/stars, but this doesn’t explain the origins of Hebrew religion, which critiqued sun- and moon-god worship, denied there were multiple deities in the heavens, and ridiculed the notion that stars were gods who controlled one’s fate; in the OT the sun and moon are seen as controlled by Yahweh;

– there is no reason to associate the word “sun” with the word “son,” and simply blending together all ideas about both in antiquity, a syncretistic thinking, leads to massive distortions of religious history;

– the Hebrews already long since had a religion when they went to Egypt (e.g. Joseph, Moses); experts in ancient Hebrew religion will tell you (e.g. Ancient Israel by Roland DeVaux) that the differences between a monotheistic/henotheistic religion grounded in historical persons and actions, and Egyptian mythology grounded in the cycles of nature, the rising/setting of the sun, motions of the stars, are considerable;

– see Psalm 8 : the sun, moon, and stars are the works of God’s fingers; a God of creation who made all things that exist; human beings are the crown of God’s creation, created in God’s image;

– notice the anti-anthropomorphic theology : God is not the sun, he does not have a son that is the sun, creation is what the one true God has made which desacralizes nature; Nature is not a god or gods or divine (Romans 1:20-25), neither are human beings as human beings.

– the scholarly work on the star in the east: if historical it centers on the conjunction of planets, specifically Jupiter and Venus (e.g. the Nativity); it does not center on Sirius, the dog star;

– Bethlehem certainly does mean “house of bread” but it has nothing to do with the constellation Virgo, which indeed is short for virgin; it has to do with this region being fertile enough to support both grass and wheat; hence shepherds and farmers (i.e. The “Fertile Crescent” along the Nile);

– the origins of the death and resurrrection of Jesus based of the Winter Solstice / Dec 22-25 is laughable; the Gospels are clear that Jesus was not in the tomb for three whole days, only parts of Fri-Sat-Sun (he rose “on the third day”); an attempt by the Evangelists to conform this to some astrological phenomena makes the above inexplicable;

– the notion of bodily resurrection had long existed in Judaism before the time of Jesus (see e.g. N.T. Wright’s Resurrection of the Son of God), and was not concocted in light of astrology or any other nature religion;

– the twelve disciples are not the 12 constellations of the Zodiac; they represent the 12 tribes of Israel, going back to Jacob and his 12 sons; the Genesis stories are not astrological in character at all, but rather explanations of a historical origins of a people; the 12 disciples are chosen not because Jesus was a stargazer; he was attempting to reform, and indeed re-form Israel;

– consider the most basic ancient zodiac pattern we have, e.g. the floor of the synagogue at Sepphoris; Jews, like every other group of agrarian peoples were interested in the weather and the seasons. Do we find a cross pattern? No.

– supposedly on 1 AD a new “age” or astrological cycle begins, after the age of the Ram: but Jesus was born somewhere between 2-6 BC, not in 1 AD; and we know this because Herod the Great was king of the Holy land and according to the records Herod died about 2 BC; ergo: Jesus had to be born before then.

Phil P


#5

BTW, I would also look into the history of astrology. The modern astrological patterns / figures were only correlated accurately in the 1900s by the International Astronomical Union. These do not date back thousands of years to ancient Egypt and Israel, etc.

“The borders of the constellations were drawn up and finalized by the International Astronomical Union in 1930. The Sun, which travels the straight and narrow road of the ecliptic, even passes through a thirteenth constellation – Ophiuchus, the Serpent Bearer – from about November 29 to December 17. What’s more, the Sun barely touches upon the constellation Cetus, the Sea Monster, at the end of the first week in March.” (from “Signs & Constellations Of The Zodiac”, www.Astronomy.net )

“Unlike the zodiac signs in astrology, which are all thirty degrees in length, the astronomical constellations vary widely in size. The boundaries of all the constellations in the sky were set by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) in 1930. This was essentially a mapping exercise to make the work of astronomers more efficient, and the boundaries of the constellations are not therefore in any meaningful sense an ‘equivalent’ to the zodiac signs. Along with the twelve original constellations, the boundaries of a thirteenth constellation, Ophiuchus, were set by astronomers within the bounds of the zodiac.” (from Wikipedia article on the Zodiac)

Also a scientific critique of Astrology from www.BadAstronomy.com

In short, “Zeitgeist” movie knows nothing about Horus and nothing about Astrology. And don’t get me started on 9/11 and “New World Order” conspiracies (part 2 and 3 of that dumb movie). :whacky:

Phil P


closed #6

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